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.bebi
Nov 12, 2008, 08:13 PM
I just put up a thread on it now.

salstep
Nov 12, 2008, 08:15 PM
See how our barbaric people treat children! Bad PR on our beloved country.

No Smoking
Nov 12, 2008, 08:40 PM
Don't worry about the PR. The fact of the matter being exposed by the documentary is something that needs to be addressed.

The govt, people and "prophets" of Akwa Ibom need to look at themselves in the light of the 21st century. About 150 years ago, Mary Slessor was in those areas, working against the killing of twins.

Freedom
Nov 12, 2008, 08:43 PM
This is chilling and unfortunate. The height of ignarance; and the so called authorities sit tight and do nothing!!

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/saving+africas+witch+children/2780062

.bebi
Nov 12, 2008, 08:47 PM
Helen Ukpabio is just there shouting like a mad woman.She and her ilk should be prosecuted.

Very worrying situation.

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 08:51 PM
Did you see that ***** of a man brandishing cutlass and threatening to butcher the child with it.

It was really heart wrenching for me as I watch the man and child walk away from the village and her family.
How can people be so cruel to a child in that manner. Ignorance is really very very dangerous.

UncleTisha
Nov 12, 2008, 08:58 PM
This is so heart-wrenching to watch!

Are there any Akwa-Ibom/Cross River people in this village?

i need to ask a few questions

gwappa
Nov 12, 2008, 09:01 PM
So sad!!!
I have to blame Abuja.

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 09:01 PM
Ooppssss, i missed!

I only watched where the Governor promised to sign the bill and true to his words, did so! I saw the Kids marched to his office!

Those Kids are hungry. What a life!

Oh good, there's a repeat broadcast on Channel 4+

Miliki Way
Nov 12, 2008, 09:04 PM
Are there any Akwa-Ibom/Cross River people in this village?

Where is CIkpatt?? Oya, come out and defend ya people.

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 09:04 PM
Ooppssss, i missed!

I only watched where the Governor promised to sign the bill and true to his words, did so! I saw the Kids marched to his office!

Those Kids are hungry. What a life!

watch it on SKY 135, programme just started.

Where is Pastor VM?

salstep
Nov 12, 2008, 09:05 PM
Helen Ukpabio is just there shouting like a mad woman.She and her ilk should be prosecuted.

Very worrying situation.

That woman should be behind bars. Nothing our people won't do for money. Sickening.

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 09:09 PM
Ooppssss, i missed!

I only watched where the Governor promised to sign the bill and true to his words, did so! I saw the Kids marched to his office!

Those Kids are hungry. What a life!

Oh good, there's a repeat broadcast on Channel 4+

Yep WaleAkin you did miss the most traumatic part of the documentary.
I think is is not enough for the government to see the bill signed into law. The most important thing is what is his government doing to protect and provide for those children and raise awareness against the evil practice.

salstep
Nov 12, 2008, 09:09 PM
BIO -Evang. Mrs. Helen Ukpabio


LIFE BEFORE KNOWING THE LORD

This is just a brief history of my life. Full story is written in a book titled “THE SEAT OF SATAN EXPOSED”. I was initiated into Olumba cult at 14 years of age, I was also betrothed to Lucifer as would be wife. This automatically qualifies me to attend a spiritual school for the Royals. I was trained in concepts of mysticism, occultism, spiritism, Satanism, demonism and general cultism. The idea of developing strategies that will aid in keeping activities of the cult alive and seeing more human registering with the occult kingdom is the number one goal of the occult kingdom.

The practice of witchcraft, necromancy, familiar spirits, and other spiritistic activities in order to multiply them thereby causing confusion multiplying wrong altars are Satan’s strategy to help water down the true churches are some of their activities.

Finally, the Lord brought me out in His own time. I was saved, born again, sanctified well taught in the word. I was 14 years when Olumba seized me to work for Satan but at 17 years, the Lord brought me out to His glory.

In 1992, I received a call into full time ministry, this is how Liberty Foundation Gospel Ministries was born. The aim being to set the captives free by the gospel. Ever then the Church has grown forward. Liberty Foundation Gospel Ministries gave birth to:

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 09:18 PM
That woman should be behind bars. Nothing our people won't do for money. Sickening.

Not just her but the others shown in that video particularly those saying that they prevent the kids from going to sleep till 5.00 am in the morning because they're trying to prevent them from going for their nightly meeting or whatever. See the marks all over the child's body probably from flogging.

God I can't believe this is all going on in your name :icon_ques:mad: How can this be condoned in the country:icon_ques.

AwakeNigeria
Nov 12, 2008, 09:21 PM
BIO -Evang. Mrs. Helen Ukpabio


LIFE BEFORE KNOWING THE LORD

This is just a brief history of my life. Full story is written in a book titled "THE SEAT OF SATAN EXPOSED". I was initiated into Olumba cult at 14 years of age, I was also betrothed to Lucifer as would be wife. This automatically qualifies me to attend a spiritual school for the Royals. I was trained in concepts of mysticism, occultism, spiritism, Satanism, demonism and general cultism. The idea of developing strategies that will aid in keeping activities of the cult alive and seeing more human registering with the occult kingdom is the number one goal of the occult kingdom.

The practice of witchcraft, necromancy, familiar spirits, and other spiritistic activities in order to multiply them thereby causing confusion multiplying wrong altars are Satan's strategy to help water down the true churches are some of their activities.

Finally, the Lord brought me out in His own time. I was saved, born again, sanctified well taught in the word. I was 14 years when Olumba seized me to work for Satan but at 17 years, the Lord brought me out to His glory.

In 1992, I received a call into full time ministry, this is how Liberty Foundation Gospel Ministries was born. The aim being to set the captives free by the gospel. Ever then the Church has grown forward. Liberty Foundation Gospel Ministries gave birth to:

So is Mrs. Helen Ukpabio as well as these other 'pastors' happy now? Are they fulfilled? I wonder what Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN) and Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) are doing? This is a sheer waste of another generation.

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 09:27 PM
I already have tears in my eyes and the programme is still on. See that poor 5 year old girl Mary, left to wander the streets, ostracised by the community because they say she's a witch. What a shame!

Tola Odejayi
Nov 12, 2008, 09:33 PM
Where is CIkpatt?? Oya, come out and defend ya people.

Must an Akwa-Ibom man have to defend everything another Akwa-Ibom person does?

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 09:34 PM
I already have tears in my eyes and the programme is still on. See that poor 5 year old girl Mary, left to wander the streets, ostracised by the community because they say she's a witch. What a shame!


I know what you mean. I am also in tears here too. Look at the baby left with the little girl at the gate of the centre. This is indeed the shame of a nation.

Lalakokofefe
Nov 12, 2008, 09:35 PM
Is the documentary available anywhere online?

MsWoman
Nov 12, 2008, 09:45 PM
I won't be able to watch it because it will totally devastate me. I saw a couple of clips on the internet the other day and didn't know when I started bawling. I can watch horror movies like Texas Chain Saw Massacre and anything else, but what I cannot stand is to see documentaries or hear of children suffering anywhere in the world. Too much for me and depresses me for days.

Ayomide
Nov 12, 2008, 09:50 PM
Please...

You mean the family, the mothers didn't resist these? Someone's babies were just taken away in their presence, and violated and mutilated just like that without putting up a fight?!:evil::evil:



Originally Posted by VOR
I already have tears in my eyes and the programme is still on. See that poor 5 year old girl Mary, left to wander the streets, ostracised by the community because they say she's a witch. What a shame!


Did you see that ***** of a man brandishing cutlass and threatening to butcher the child with it.

It was really heart wrenching for me as I watch the man and child walk away from the village and her family.
How can people be so cruel to a child in that manner. Ignorance is really very very dangerous.

Soul Sista
Nov 12, 2008, 09:56 PM
Is the program available on the NET? Does anyone know?

gwappa
Nov 12, 2008, 09:59 PM
http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=saving-africas-witch-children#popover

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 10:00 PM
Hmnnnn..........This is scary!

Now, who is a witch and how do you know one?

Miliki Way
Nov 12, 2008, 10:01 PM
Must an Akwa-Ibom man have to defend everything another Akwa-Ibom person does?

Yes.:lol:

Abi I lie?

No Smoking
Nov 12, 2008, 10:03 PM
Three inch long nail driven into the skull of a child, to force out a confession.. :eek:

lumidii
Nov 12, 2008, 10:08 PM
Is the documentary available anywhere online?

Its on channel 4+1 on Sky 135, which runs programmes an hour later than Ch4. Its will just be coming to an end now. Saw your post really late.

You can get it online if you go on to channel 4 website, they normally do make some programmes available to watch on demand for like 30days. So you may check the site within the next few days.

If you've got sky tv, they also have the sky "anytime tv" where they do make some documentaries/kids cartoons/movies available to watch anytime for upto a week(i think).

Those people are really really sick, i thought such abuse was prevalent only in places like Congo etc. Bathing innocent kids in hotwater, driving a 3inch nail into a girl's head etc is just pure wickedness, its way up there with paedophillia if not worse. How can some parents be so gullible, and allow their kids to be subjected to such abuse, just because of what some twisted prophet tells them? Sick sick sick.

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 10:13 PM
This Guy is really mad.....................2.3Mirrion:D witches in Akwa Ibom!

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 10:17 PM
"This conroction(Concoction) is rused (Used) to blind his ryes(Eyes) spiritually." What an eediot!

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 10:18 PM
I know what you mean. I am also in tears here too. Look at the baby left with the little girl at the gate of the centre. This is indeed the shame of a nation.

I am so sad. Why? How can this happen in the 21st century. Look at that 5 year old child separated from her mother and sister because some weirdo prophetess who had already collected 15k from the mother of the child says the child is a witch! The child is threatened and basically ran out of turn by a machete weilding grown up!!

Look at that fake yankee accent man wanting to saw off the hand of that poor boy!

Other atrocities shown on the programme include;

A child made to seat on an open fire - because she is a witch
A child doused with kerosine and set ablaze - because she is a witch
A child had acid poured on her - because she is a witch
Two young boys chained outside a church for days - because they are witches (not wizards o, in these places they are all winches:rolleyes:)
5 children locked up in a room for years - because they are witches. Infact, the pastor said he has managed to deliver one of the young girls, "she is okay now, she even serves me in the bedroom"!!! what does this mean?
A child had a nail hammered into her head - because she is a witch
Children set alight or macheted - because they are witches.

This must not go on.

I am going to find out more about Stepping Stones, find out ways I can assist. Surely, they must need funding.

Also I think pressure should be put on the government to prosecute these self proclaimed pastors and prophetesses - imagine that one saying on tv he has killed 110 children?

Helen Upkabio madam "I have a voice in Nigeria" has used her preaching and videos to encourage this practice - because she claims God sent her, which God? Let us bombard her website with protest letters or e-mails.

She is also a member of the Pentecostal Family of Nigeria, what are they doing about this?

At least the governor has signed the Child Act, lets just hope things get better for these children.

Djister
Nov 12, 2008, 10:20 PM
This Guy is really mad.....................2.3Mirrion:D witches in Akwa Ibom!

Abeg Wetin bi dem population for dat side sef?
All dem gominor for dat side see as dem eye BIG! Na winch?

Na so all dis waterside people dey do?

ABRAXAS!!!
SAPELE MAN!!!
SON OF DELTA!!!
NFK5MW abi wetin be ya name sef?

Make una come o!

Nigeria people don yabb una well well!

Djister (looking for SERIOUS trouble!):arrow:

Beam
Nov 12, 2008, 10:20 PM
Hmnnnn..........This is scary!

Now, who is a witch and how do you know one?


Thanks, WaleAkin, all the time I was watching the programme it bothered me thinking how do you know a witch? and these are kids.............how dare these people say they are witches................ I am still speechless, I find it hard to believe this happens in Nigeria .

Such a sad thing..... for kids of such tender ages to be exposed to :sad:

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 10:21 PM
"I correct (collect) 400,000 Thousand Naira to deliver a child from witchcraft acts !................."

I swear, you must be a mad Man- Who are these Guys abegi!

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 10:28 PM
A child made to seat on an open fire - because she is a witch
A child doused with kerosine and set ablaze - because she is a witch
A child had acid poured on her - because she is a witch
Two young boys chained outside a church for days - because they are witches (not wizards o, in these places they are all winches:rolleyes:)
5 children locked up in a room for years - because they are witches. Infact, the pastor said he has managed to deliver one of the young girls, "she is okay now, she even serves me in the bedroom"!!! what does this mean?
A child had a nail hammered into her head - because she is a witch
Children set alight or macheted - because they are witches.VOR, This is year 2008 ohhh!!!

These eediots are maltreating Children with such madness. I swear if i have a cordinate of the area, i can scramble a F-16 Torpedo and go level that church!

Which school Akpabio go? Who born am? Who give am soup, tell am say eba go easy? Abi oloriburuku la'won people yi ni?

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 10:29 PM
This is their website. Please visit the site and see different ways you can help this cause

I am thinking of helping hold a fund raising event, I'll need help from villagers, any takers?

http://www.steppingstonesnigeria.org/howtohelp

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 10:31 PM
I am so sad. Why? How can this happen in the 21st century. Look at that 5 year old child separated from her mother and sister because some weirdo prophetess who had already collected 15k from the mother of the child says the child is a witch! The child is threatened and basically ran out of turn by a machete weilding grown up!!

Look at that fake yankee accent man wanting to saw off the hand of that poor boy!

Other atrocities shown on the programme include;

A child made to seat on an open fire - because she is a witch
A child doused with kerosine and set ablaze - because she is a witch
A child had acid poured on her - because she is a witch
Two young boys chained outside a church for days - because they are witches (not wizards o, in these places they are all winches:rolleyes:)
5 children locked up in a room for years - because they are witches. Infact, the pastor said he has managed to deliver one of the young girls, "she is okay now, she even serves me in the bedroom"!!! what does this mean?
A child had a nail hammered into her head - because she is a witch
Children set alight or macheted - because they are witches.

This must not go on.

I am going to find out more about Stepping Stones, find out ways I can assist. Surely, they must need funding.

Also I think pressure should be put on the government to prosecute these self proclaimed pastors and prophetesses - imagine that one saying on tv he has killed 110 children?

Helen Upkabio madam "I have a voice in Nigeria" has used her preaching and videos to encourage this practice - because she claims God sent her, which God? Let us bombard her website with protest letters or e-mails.

She is also a member of the Pentecostal Family of Nigeria, what are they doing about this?

At least the governor has signed the Child Act, lets just hope things get better for these children.

I agree with you about bombarding her website with protest and any other means necessary to bring her to her senses.

Shebi she is said to have 3 children. I'm sure she will never accept or allow anyone near her own children not to talk of accusing them of witchcraft. Yet she is aiding and abetting the abuse of other people's children. Things like this should not be allowed to continued. I am with you all the way Vor

UncleTisha
Nov 12, 2008, 10:35 PM
Must an Akwa-Ibom man have to defend everything another Akwa-Ibom person does?

I'm not asking for Akwa-Ibom men for defence purposes but for offense.

They are needed to communicate in the local dialect with these witch-catchers. To tell them that they will all rot in hell for torturing and maiming innocent children.

Nonsense and Ingridience! :redface:

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 10:46 PM
Madam "I have a voice in Nigeria" website

http://helen-ukpabio.com/contact-us.htm

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 10:47 PM
I have been to their website and seen the various ways that people can help the organisation. What have you got in mind regarding the fund raising Vor?.

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 10:52 PM
I have been to their website and seen the various ways that people can help the organisation. What have you got in mind regarding the fund raising Vor?.

Valteena

Still thinking up ideas. Dinner, fun walk, work/church/mosque collection. They say on their website that one can call for help and advice on this, I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Maybe we can even send them clothes, books etc - just thinking various ways to help. Will be happy to hear other ideas.

Ewuro
Nov 12, 2008, 10:53 PM
Hmnnnn..........This is scary!

Now, who is a witch and how do you know one?
Those pastors and adults who abuse children are the witches. They are evil. Religion is killing Nigerians.

Miliki Way
Nov 12, 2008, 10:54 PM
Who the hell is Evangelist Helen Ukpabio?

You hear these type of people and you shake your head in pity. What kind of god do these people serve? How gullible can a people be?

These are the types of annoying stories that transforms an otherwise strong Christian into an irredeemable atheist.

emj
Nov 12, 2008, 11:06 PM
Looks to me like...Practising Wickedness under the cover of Exorcism...signs of the end times


In some of the poorest parts of Nigeria, where evangelical religious fervour is combined with a belief in sorcery and black magic, many thousands of children are being blamed for catastrophes, death and famine - and branded witches by powerful pastors. These children are then abandoned, tortured, starved and murdered - all in the name of Jesus Christ.

This Dispatches Special follows the work of one Englishman, 29-year-old Gary Foxcroft, who has devoted his life to helping these desperate and vulnerable children. Gary's charity, Stepping Stones Nigeria, raises funds to help Sam Itauma, who five years ago, rescued four children accused of witchcraft. He now struggles to care for over 150 in a makeshift shelter and school in the Niger Delta region called CRARN (Child Rights and Rehabilitation Network).

Gary and Sam introduce Dispatches to some of the rescued children who have been through unimaginable horrors, such as Ekemeni, aged 13, who was tied up with chicken wire and starved and beaten for two weeks, and Mary, aged 14, who was burnt with acid before her mother attempted to bury her alive. Other children display the hallmarks of witch-branding - acid burns and machete scars. Uma Eke, aged 17, has been left brain-damaged after having a three-inch nail driven into her skull.

Hospitals refuse to treat children associated with sorcery, so Sam's centre does its best to provide medical aid. As well as the physical scars, the children arrive at the shelter badly traumatised by their experiences, with many of them brain-washed into accepting they are possessed by the devil.

The parents or siblings of children torture them in an attempt to kill them or force confessions from them to admit that they are witches. As Gary remarks, the children at CRARN are the lucky ones - they're still alive.

Influential preachers from the more extreme churches brand the children witches or wizards and exploit their desperate parents by charging them exorbitant amounts of money in return for exorcising the spirits. The film features extraordinary access to some of the preachers who openly discuss their work. One preacher who calls himself 'The Bishop,' says he has made a fortune by carrying out 'deliverances' on children. He admits having killed 110 people in the past. Dispatches films him as he administers a mixture of pure alcohol, a substance known as 'African mercury' and his own blood to one child accused of witchcraft.

Exorcism is big business. Preachers can charge as much as a year's salary for an average Nigerian to treat children. They often hold the child captive until the parents can pay up. The Niger Delta area is oil rich - but very few have access to oil wealth; the average life expectancy is around 47.

Gary visits the CRARN centre regularly from the UK - a risky journey for a westerner. He works alongside Sam to try to persuade parents to take their children back. Dispatches follows Gary as he travels to a small port which has a growing problem of abandoned children. He soon finds himself followed by a five-year-old girl, Mary, who has been ostracised for being a witch, following the death of her mother. As Gary tries to talk to her, an angry crowd gathers. She is clearly traumatised, malnourished and in real danger, so he takes her to her old village in an attempt to reunite her with her family. But with her father long-gone, her extended family wash their hands of her - terrified: "she will poison everything." Gary takes her back to the centre and after dedicated care, she begins a slow recovery.

Gary has been politely petitioning the local state government to enact the Child Rights Act which has been accepted by the National Federal Government, but to no avail. He decides on more direct action and buses the children to the governor's residence, holding a demonstration for four-hours in the blazing sun before being granted an audience. The protest is successful but a steady flow of around 10 children a week continues to enter the centre.

Shocking and tragic, Dispatches reveals the plight of the thousands of innocent children who suffer intolerable cruelty at the hands of so-called Christian pastors. As Gary, Director of UK Charity Stepping Stones Nigeria, says: "It's an absolute scandal. Any Christian would look at the situation that is going on here and just be absolutely outraged that they were using the teachings of Jesus Christ to exploit and abuse innocent children."

You can find out more about the work of Stepping Stones Nigeria at www.steppingstonesnigeria.org

Witch Children in the UK
Watch: Video Interviews on the growing UK problem »

According to the Metropolitan Police there have been almost 60 cases of child abuse related to witchcraft or possession reported to Scotland Yard in the past two years alone. Few receive much publicity but perhaps the best known involved eight year old Victoria Climbié. Branded a witch by a local pastor in London in 2000, she was tortured to death by her guardians. More recently, the torture and abuse of 'Child B' who was accused of witchcraft in London in 2005, and the torture of two boys by their father in Bradford linked to a belief in witchcraft and possession highlight a growing problem.

It is not illegal to accuse a child of being a witch in the UK and members of the UK African community openly acknowledge the growing influence and powers of the pastors - that allegations of witchcraft are taking root here and something needs to be done.

"They're brainwashing them with ideas that they can be witches or possessed with evil spirits. I think we're finding it hard to see a way out because church leaders are such strong people and are people to look up to in our community."

Moreover, with films promoting the idea of child witches being openly sold on London street markets and more extreme Nigerian preachers looking to set up churches in Britain and elsewhere, the problem will only get worse.

Find Out More
Stepping Stones Nigeria
Room 36, D Floor
St Leonard's House
St Leonard's Gate
Lancaster LA1 1NN
Tel: 0845 3138391 (Mon-Fri 9 - 5pm)
Email: Info@steppingstonesnigeria.org
Website: www.steppingstonesnigeria.org
Works in partnership with local organisations in the Niger Delta region of Nigeria to build sustainable futures for some of the region's many disadvantaged children, including protecting, saving and transforming the lives of children who have been stigmatised as being 'witches'.

http://www.crarn.org/

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 11:13 PM
What is Christianity and who are called Christians?

"Suffer not the little children, for theirs is the kingdom of God"

The othe day, i was shopping at BlueWater for my Boys and of these rude Boys walked his dog past us (My Boys and i) and the dog barked heavily at my youngest Son wanting to bite him...........Come and see as i entered my BAD MODE and almost slapped the Boy with the dog.................he apologised straight off!

Now, for any parent to drive a 6inch nail into the skull of his daughter is sickening!

Koni dafun baba and Iya na! Ko ni ragba fun won! Ti won ba n le, won ni ba, ti won ba ba, owo won oni te! Awon omo ale jatijati

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 11:13 PM
Valteena

Still thinking up ideas. Dinner, fun walk, work/church/mosque collection. They say on their website that one can call for help and advice on this, I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Maybe we can even send them clothes, books etc - just thinking various ways to help. Will be happy to hear other ideas.

I am thinking in line of the computer and laptop collection. There is an ongoing large scale computer replacement in at my work place. I'll see if it is possible to get a couple as donation to them. Or raise some fund through a dress down day at my work place that my company can match as it is their policy to do.
Maybe if we can join forces after you've spoken with them to about this idea and any other you have.

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 11:19 PM
Madam "I have a voice in Nigeria" website

http://helen-ukpabio.com/contact-us.htm I just got a confirmation now from a source in Nigeria that Helen Ukpabio writes for Nollywood and that she is a director on Christian Movies. Is this true?

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 11:20 PM
I am thinking in line of the computer and laptop collection. There is an ongoing large scale computer replacement in at my work place. I'll see if it is possible to get a couple as donation to them. Or raise some fund through a dress down day at my work place that my company can match as it is their policy to do.
Maybe if we can join forces after you've spoken with them to about this idea and any other you have.


Fantastic Valteena!

Dress down looks good, may adopt it too;) I am also thinking of getting my network of friends to organise their own events at work and places of worship. Together, we can do something!

Thanks sis!

VOR
Nov 12, 2008, 11:22 PM
I just got a confirmation now from a source in Nigeria that Helen Ukpabio writes for Nollywood and that she is a Movie director on Christian Movies. Is this true?

Yes it is Wale, why do you think she can open her mouth wide and say "I have a voice in Nigeria"? Visit her website to check out her 'blockbuster' collection

emj
Nov 12, 2008, 11:24 PM
I just got a confirmation now from a source in Nigeria that Helen Ukpabio writes for Nollywood and that she is a Movie director on Christian Movies. Is this true?

http://helen-ukpabio.com/liberty-films.htm

Check up dia...they are doing gbogbolowo:arrow:

lumidii
Nov 12, 2008, 11:30 PM
Imagine the woman(Helen Ukpabio) drawing parallels with Harry Potter, in a bid to validate the consequences of the sick movie her ministry sponsored. Is this peculiar to Akwa-ibom state? Or does it go on in other parts of the country too? I'm not trying to start a war here, its just to get an idea of the magnitude of this depravity. I just can't believe that such cruelty occurs in any part of Nigeria.

There was an isolated incident in Oyo state in the late 80's/early 90's of a girl who had a 9inch nail hammered halfway into her skull, she survived the surgery to remove the nail, and later got adopted by the then Military-administrator's wife. The girl was christened Bose Oyo, but the name of the Governor(from the eastern region) escapes me at this time. That was ingrained in my memory, and the picture of the helpless girl, and the X-ray scan remains vivid in my head till today. What i've just seen today beats that gory picture.

But then, movies about witchcraft aren't a new thing in Nigeria, i saw quite a few of those videos in yoruba(koledowo, yanpon-yanrin, omolokun) and some of them had possessed kids but there were usually the baddies(aje dudu-black witch) and the good ones(aje funfun-white witch), and more often than not, the good ones always prevailed over the baddies or something like that, and we would get some sort of moral sense out of it. None of them promoted the kind of cruelty these kids here have been subjected to, it must be that Ukpabio's movie promoted child cruelty for that old man to pinpoint her movie as a strong reason for this abuse. The Nigerian Film Censors Board also carry some of the blame for rubberstamping the release of this kind of demonic video. Mount zion ministries also released some popular series featuring witchcrafts in warfare against christians, and they got their message across without labelling innocent children as witches.

Help is needed really quickly.

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 11:33 PM
http://helen-ukpabio.com/liberty-films.htmAh, Aha, Ah!! I tire ohhhh

valteena
Nov 12, 2008, 11:35 PM
Fantastic Valteena!

Dress down looks good, may adopt it too;) I am also thinking of getting my network of friends to organise their own events at work and places of worship. Together, we can do something!

Thanks sis!

Good I'll keep youn posted on development from my end as soon as there is any. The dress down day one shouldn't be a problem at all at my work place.

Auspicious
Nov 12, 2008, 11:40 PM
I am not sure I can watch the program even if it was shown on TV out here across the Pond. I have read, watched and heard enough bad news coming out of Nigeria in one week - culminating in the ultimate brutality metted out on that Okere lady in Victoria Island. It's like the Devil himself walks on stilts around in that country of ours. Imagine the Oyibos and others watching this on Channel 4 and around the world!!!

Why won't the Oyibos undermine us on their British Airways plane etc? This is NOT to excuse some of the Oyibos discriminatory practices et al - no! One must condemn it as much as we condemn ours. But the truth is that WE respect Oyibos in our country because, amongst other reasons, the Oyibos treat one another with a kind of dignity that is rare in our interaction as Africans or Nigerians. We treat ourselves worse than Oyibo treat us!

Oh well. I guess this would be the Christian equivalent of what happened in Sudan a few weeks ago, where a 13-year old girl was stoned to death for what her "allahu akbar"-invoking executioners called "adultery". The DIFFERENCE here is that most christians here are STANDING-UP to condemn it, rather than busy themselves asking for the news source or veracity of these terrible practice, before they can show concern or sympathies about the crime.

God, Allah or whatever other name he goes by, is truly a patient God.

Auspicious.

emj
Nov 12, 2008, 11:42 PM
Yes we can Olori Vor...work through the normal Channel. Find out from Gary if it's okay to channel Donations Direct to Nigeria or through him.(that is after all due diligence)

Nice doings Valteena:arrow:



Ps>>>>>>>>>...http://www.crarn.org/contact%20us.htm

Will call the guy in Nigeria and give you guys feedback through the usual channel.....Valteena to be included in the channel pls.

BTW....gather as much information as we can in respect of the two organizations and the initiators.....God help us.

WaleAkin
Nov 12, 2008, 11:43 PM
Come, how can a Police Officer (DPO for that matter) be wearing a native attire on duty? Look at the monkey, a whole Senior officer, sat, crossed his legs and talked nonsense! Mr Ayes Deilo, Divisional Police Officer, Esit Eket (Go find another job, OK)

Everything is wrong with Nigeria abegi!

omoluabi
Nov 13, 2008, 12:59 AM
I am not sure I can watch the program even if it was shown on TV out here across the Pond. I have read, watched and heard enough bad news coming out of Nigeria in one week - culminating in the ultimate brutality metted out on that Okere lady in Victoria Island. It's like the Devil himself walks on stilts around in that country of ours. Imagine the Oyibos and others watching this on Channel 4 and around the world!!! -- Auspicious


It is all too exasperating!

Now we want to do Nuclear, and Oyibo (IAEA, UN, US) is not protesting; maybe they know we might wipe ourselves out in the process ! I'm just saying; they are not even complaining. Scary.


God, Allah or whatever other name he goes by, is truly a patient God.

Amen !

Kenn
Nov 13, 2008, 02:27 AM
For those who still seek reasons for our perpetual state of underdevelopment and underachievement, the answer is right here in this story staring us in the face. Take the case of little Mary. See the fear in her eyes, sucked of all expression of happiness and childlike joyfulness because of what she’d been through. She looked unkempt, unwashed, uncared-for and unloved! She certainly must have been physically tortured serially by those who’ve declared her a witch at the age of five! “Do you believe you are a witch?” she was asked and grimly and innocently, she nodded “Yes”. While the beasts who’ve dehumanized her may read that as a full public confession to her witchcraft, the simple truth is she does not know what else to say because that is what they’ve accusatorily drilled into her skull – the idea that she is not a good child, that she is a witch who’d possibly killed her mother and run her father out of town! In a serial destructive process, they created the idea of a witch in her mind and now she accepts it as true, even when all they talk about might sound like Greek to her!

Here is a girl who looks intelligent and whose smartness, rather than being nurtured, has been interpreted as witchcraft. I mean, imagine the answer she gave when she was asked what she wants them to do for her. She simply answered that she wants to go to school! You would think that a child who’s been put through such hell will ask for food, for clothes or material things and all that, but she asked to go to school! Why, because she has been made to grow beyond her age by suffering; she, because she’s intelligent, has realized that education is the only thing that can take her away from the hole that she’s in! Out of the mouth of babes and suckling, wisdom cometh forth!

The question is how many of this kind of child abuse scenarios are being played out all over the nation? How many prophets and prophetesses and self-appointed witch-hunters are out there feeding fat on dangerous superstition and hocus-pocus? The dimensions are grave. When Helen Ukpabio says she has a voice in Nigeria, she means it. Why, because it is religion-feeding criminals like her that are the enablers and spiritual guides to those who seek political office to loot our joint patrimony. People like Ukpabio who claim to work for Christ are their “legitimate” route into darkness without anyone raising an eyebrow. After all, they are “Christians”! Yes, make no mistake about it, Ukpabio does not work for Christ. She claims Olumba seized her at 14 and Christ saved her at 17 to put her to this type of work. Yet, it is only those who do not know the real God, Lord of lords, she can bamboozle with such lies. She is an agent of darkness masquerading as light. Christ did not save her at 17. At 17, she fully graduated in the Devil’s Academy as his top student, because if Christ really saved her, then she would know about what Christ said about little children.

Christ asked that little children should be allowed to come to him, because theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven! There may well have been children considered evil amongst those Christ embraced, but he did not judge them. He did not say, “You naughty little bastard, get out of my sight!” Why, because he recognizes that anyone who is part of the Kingdom of Heaven cannot be an instrument of the devil! And yes, if the devil manages to use them as his vessel of evil, anyone doing God’s will ought to know that they can only be regarded as victims and not be treated as perpetrators. Mrs Ukpabi cannot be collecting money from vulnerable and superstition-ravaged people who are always looking for someone to blame for their plight in an economy and social condition that’s in anomie and turn round to tell us she’s doing God’s will. She cannot say she’s doing God’s will by destroying the lives of our young people, our future – people she ought to take in and help if she is truly of God. She cannot say she’s doing God’s work by oppressing little children who cannot fight back and whose parents she has indoctrinated to believe that the source of their joy is the source of their sorrows! She cannot be doing God’s will by destroying families and creating fear and distrust in communities while she feeds fat on their plights! As Christ said to the Pharisees, Ukpabi is of the Devil, her father! In the end, Father Almighty shall judge her and her kind according to their deeds!

Frankly, I’m benumbed by the stories and the images I see here in this matter and I’m just too angry right now to express myself properly. But let me say this. I am not going to get into a debate with anybody over the issue here at any level. I’m only interested in what we can do to help these kids and those who’re looking after them.


VOR & Valteena,

Thank you for the leadership role you guys have taken here. I will advise we take this away from the NVS and do whatever we can from behind the scenes. Any or both of you can always come here to call on interested persons to join whatever effort is in place and you can always come here to update people on what is going on. But NVS has enough on its plate right now to take on this as well. We should not overextend the NVS by piling everything on it. Thus, I’m suggesting that as conscientious members, we should organize and do something on our own. Anyone who is interested can simply contact you guys by PM or private email. I have a few ideas about how we should go about this, but I’ll discuss them with those who are truly interested privately. Let’s do what we can. It’s the future of our country that is being destroyed by this evil masquerading as light. We will fight it with all our might from every angle imaginable.


CHEERS AND STAY BLESSED EVERYONE!

godfather
Nov 13, 2008, 03:50 AM
What a deranged society!

Charles Manson would have been a hero in that country.

nero africanus
Nov 13, 2008, 06:32 AM
i think it is important to get to the root of these matter , in the so called spirituality of african peoples and culture and in the new wave of the pentecostal movement certain values emanating from african traiditional religion migrated across to christianity .

there is this knack for explaining everything in black and white , everything has a spiritual connotation and explanation and there is nothing like coincidence.

nothing just happens as a result of the physical imperfection of man , disease is of the devil, poverty is of the devil ,

this can be seen in todays nigeria where not just akwa ibom other states still beleive in ogbanje/abiku rather than seeing a child with sickle cell anaemia.

this can be extrapolated to the issue of child witches,

there are disturbed children , and these are physical ailments for which there needs to be a medical solution s ,

there are children with behavioural problems like

short attention span
hyperactivity
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
disruptive behaviour disorder
agressive anti solcia behavior

the problem is that once these is noticed , it is termed witctcraft

this is not peculiar to akwa ibom alone,
indeed it is quite common in most of nigeria
the difference is that in the case of akwa ibom ,
they are accused of witchcraft and either "delivered" or killed
where as in a place like imo or ekiti, they will be taken to the local pastor for prayers and deliverance.

more important this is the sympthoms of wider locaL malaise which is as a result of decayed medical infracture , poverty and ignorance people try to seek solutions to problems in a way they only know how or open to them

ukpabio is like any other pastor in nigeria , sucked down in a whirlpool of deceit, ignorance , and superstition . the pastors are milking the people dry by playing on their ignorance and it is manifesting itself in these forms.

soyinka used this as the central them in the trial of brother jero , where the pastor played on the gullibility of the followers

he wrote this a long time ago so you can imagine how long this has been with us

what we are seeing is the result of the collapse of government.

what is happening in akwaibom is only its more extreme forms.

the accusations of witchcraft is the same as that of a political aspirant in ebonyi who was unhealthy as a result of a sedentary lifestyle, coupled this with the stress of running for public office . the result was that his blood pressure shot through the roof and he came down with a stroke , they immediately accused his opponent who went ahead to win the elections of witchcraft.

how?
even when his doctor warned him that his heart may not be able to withstand the tension and stress of running for public office.

in the accusation of witchcraft , this fact ids conviniently forgotten

it is like the tomato seller whose child came down with an unknown ailment which wiped out her trading capital , she then goes to accuse her neighbour in the market who always refused to give her change as having struck her child down and destroying her business.

the child is sick with thyfus( not typhoid) the doctors dont know what it is , the treatment wiped out her capital , thereby destroying her working capital and her business

the biggest problem is that most of these things cannot be tackled in isolation, there needs to be a wholesome solution.

children should be protected by their primary caregivers and not tortured and killed for witchcraft.

this is a systemic problem

what if we decide to engage in awareness and promulgate laws about what preachers preach , and outlaw accusations of withccraft.

if people have no access to healthcare , they will still use pastors as substitutes for doctors
if people are poor and have no jobs , they will still look for scapegoats to blame for their failure
if people are poor they tend to be very religious and superstitous

these animals called pastors need to have their roles clearly defined , which is salvation of the human soul alone.

witchcraft and withcraft accusation need to be completely and totally outlawed for there is no such thing

that brings us to the hypocrisy of a lot of posters here who live in possession and withcraft from posts in the past , but are here expressing outrage ..... :confused1

chaos.com
Nov 13, 2008, 06:47 AM
All these cults hiding under the name of christains.
beware all those who are constantly screaming praise the lord. Even jesus christ had an open ministry and people were welcome to come and go as they liked.
there is no such thing as witchcraft and beating some body, will make him confess to anything whatsoever.
Ogbanje rubbish and these are the people who claim to be civilised. Soon after they will blame foreigner for their problems.
Africans have caused more problems to themselves than anyone else.

And some of these fools are well educated. In one govt office in lagos one ***** did not come to work for 2 months and then came for 3 days in the next month. when he got sacked, he said it was a witch in personnel.

godfather
Nov 13, 2008, 07:40 AM
i think it is important to get to the root of these matter , in the so called spirituality of african peoples and culture and in the new wage of the pentecostal movement certain values emanating from african traiditional religion migrated across to christianity .

there is this knack for explaining everything in black and white , everything has a spiritual connotation and explanation and there is nothinglike coincidence.

this canbe seen in todays nigeria where not just akwa ibom other statres still beleive in ogbanje/abiku rather than seeing a child with sickle cell anaemia.

this can be extrapolated to the issue of child witches,

there are disturbed children , and these are physical ailments for which there needs to be a medical solution sort ,

there are children with behavioural problems like

short attention span
hyperactivity
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
disruptive behaviour disorder

the problem is that once these is noticed , it is termed wit



Thank you, that's a very good point. I was actually discussing with a colleague about some of your points some couple of months ago. Our people dont take time to study issueS, they just resort to diabolic route. You will be surprise that some of health care providers in that country believe in those diabolical practises.

Dewdrops
Nov 13, 2008, 08:00 AM
One more reason not to visit churches in Nigeria especially....you will be initiated into witchcraft without even knowing it.......after they have collected their tithes and you are broke of course....you become a witch.

Another religious tragedy.

crazyotor
Nov 13, 2008, 09:11 AM
Nigeria is a Jungle where anything goes. Very many thanks to Channel 4.

salstep
Nov 13, 2008, 09:18 AM
For Those that missed it.


http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=saving-africas-witch-children

RAYNOSA
Nov 13, 2008, 09:55 AM
For Those that missed it.


http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=saving-africas-witch-children

Thanks salstep
For this video link................I don't understand all this kind of abuse all in the name of religion or belief.
I watch the programme all through,what i notice was that,they never show or mentioned adults as witches.Abi an only children dey chop witch.

Gwobe,Khalil & co must see this as everyone came down on Muslims/Islam when it was reported that a 13years old girl was stoned to death for adultery.

VadeMecum,UlaLisa & Co whats your take on this issue.

VOR
Nov 13, 2008, 12:51 PM
For those who still seek reasons for our perpetual state of underdevelopment and underachievement, the answer is right here in this story staring us in the face. Take the case of little Mary. See the fear in her eyes, sucked of all expression of happiness and childlike joyfulness because of what she'd been through. She looked unkempt, unwashed, uncared-for and unloved! She certainly must have been physically tortured serially by those who've declared her a witch at the age of five! "Do you believe you are a witch?" she was asked and grimly and innocently, she nodded "Yes". While the beasts who've dehumanized her may read that as a full public confession to her witchcraft, the simple truth is she does not know what else to say because that is what they've accusatorily drilled into her skull – the idea that she is not a good child, that she is a witch who'd possibly killed her mother and run her father out of town! In a serial destructive process, they created the idea of a witch in her mind and now she accepts it as true, even when all they talk about might sound like Greek to her!

Here is a girl who looks intelligent and whose smartness, rather than being nurtured, has been interpreted as witchcraft. I mean, imagine the answer she gave when she was asked what she wants them to do for her. She simply answered that she wants to go to school! You would think that a child who's been put through such hell will ask for food, for clothes or material things and all that, but she asked to go to school! Why, because she has been made to grow beyond her age by suffering; she, because she's intelligent, has realized that education is the only thing that can take her away from the hole that she's in! Out of the mouth of babes and suckling, wisdom cometh forth!

The question is how many of this kind of child abuse scenarios are being played out all over the nation? How many prophets and prophetesses and self-appointed witch-hunters are out there feeding fat on dangerous superstition and hocus-pocus? The dimensions are grave. When Helen Ukpabio says she has a voice in Nigeria, she means it. Why, because it is religion-feeding criminals like her that are the enablers and spiritual guides to those who seek political office to loot our joint patrimony. People like Ukpabio who claim to work for Christ are their "legitimate" route into darkness without anyone raising an eyebrow. After all, they are "Christians"! Yes, make no mistake about it, Ukpabio does not work for Christ. She claims Olumba seized her at 14 and Christ saved her at 17 to put her to this type of work. Yet, it is only those who do not know the real God, Lord of lords, she can bamboozle with such lies. She is an agent of darkness masquerading as light. Christ did not save her at 17. At 17, she fully graduated in the Devil's Academy as his top student, because if Christ really saved her, then she would know about what Christ said about little children.

Christ asked that little children should be allowed to come to him, because theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven! There may well have been children considered evil amongst those Christ embraced, but he did not judge them. He did not say, "You naughty little bastard, get out of my sight!" Why, because he recognizes that anyone who is part of the Kingdom of Heaven cannot be an instrument of the devil! And yes, if the devil manages to use them as his vessel of evil, anyone doing God's will ought to know that they can only be regarded as victims and not be treated as perpetrators. Mrs Ukpabi cannot be collecting money from vulnerable and superstition-ravaged people who are always looking for someone to blame for their plight in an economy and social condition that's in anomie and turn round to tell us she's doing God's will. She cannot say she's doing God's will by destroying the lives of our young people, our future – people she ought to take in and help if she is truly of God. She cannot say she's doing God's work by oppressing little children who cannot fight back and whose parents she has indoctrinated to believe that the source of their joy is the source of their sorrows! She cannot be doing God's will by destroying families and creating fear and distrust in communities while she feeds fat on their plights! As Christ said to the Pharisees, Ukpabi is of the Devil, her father! In the end, Father Almighty shall judge her and her kind according to their deeds!

Frankly, I'm benumbed by the stories and the images I see here in this matter and I'm just too angry right now to express myself properly. But let me say this. I am not going to get into a debate with anybody over the issue here at any level. I'm only interested in what we can do to help these kids and those who're looking after them.


VOR & Valteena,

Thank you for the leadership role you guys have taken here. I will advise we take this away from the NVS and do whatever we can from behind the scenes. Any or both of you can always come here to call on interested persons to join whatever effort is in place and you can always come here to update people on what is going on. But NVS has enough on its plate right now to take on this as well. We should not overextend the NVS by piling everything on it. Thus, I'm suggesting that as conscientious members, we should organize and do something on our own. Anyone who is interested can simply contact you guys by PM or private email. I have a few ideas about how we should go about this, but I'll discuss them with those who are truly interested privately. Let's do what we can. It's the future of our country that is being destroyed by this evil masquerading as light. We will fight it with all our might from every angle imaginable.


CHEERS AND STAY BLESSED EVERYONE!

Thanks Kenn1, this captures most of it for me.

The good thing is that there is outrage out there and people are taking action, individually and collectively I am encouraged by the responses I have received so far. My neighbours' child is planning an activity in school to raise funds!

As emj said, we will continue this via the normal channel.

.bebi
Nov 13, 2008, 09:11 PM
Most of all,those children need counselling.That very dark child who I suspect Kenn 1 was referring to had a distant and unimpressed look in her eyes.How can she grow up to be normal?
What of the baby and her 5 year old sister?
VOR and Valteena,thanks.
There's also a group on facebook for those interested in helping.
I will do my own bit.

VOR
Nov 13, 2008, 09:50 PM
Thanks .Bebi anything you can do will be appreciated by those children.

All,

I spoke with the Gary, the one on the programme yesterday. He said that the group will appreciate all the help they can get. He mentioned facebook, the petition and the letter writing campaign. People to write to are on their website www.steppingstonesnigeria.org/letterwriting (http://www.steppingstonesnigeria.org/letterwriting).

People can also donate directly to the group on their web page. They send £2,000 a month for the upkeep of the center, so every penny counts.

No Smoking
Nov 13, 2008, 10:06 PM
On a widening note, the abuse and killing of children around the world appears to be on the increase.

A Manchester (UK) mom stabbed her two infants to death yesterday. The news report is quoting statistics that put infanticide per week at 2 for UK, 3 in the USA and 27 in France... :eek: :(

emj
Nov 14, 2008, 12:13 AM
Thanks .Bebi anything you can do will be appreciated by those children.

All,

I spoke with the Gary, the one on the programme yesterday. He said that the group will appreciate all the help they can get. He mentioned facebook, the petition and the letter writing campaign. People to write to are on their website www.steppingstonesnigeria.org/letterwriting (http://www.steppingstonesnigeria.org/letterwriting).

People can also donate directly to the group on their web page. They send £2,000 a month for the upkeep of the center, so every penny counts.


http://www.steppingstonesnigeria.org/supportus




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Just to give you an insight into how much difference your donation could make we have compiled a list of some of SSN's current costs:

£5 will allow for two children to be tested for disieses such as HIV/AIDS, typhoid, malaria and dysentry

£10 a month will provide an abandoned child with three nutritious meals each day

£25 will cover the costs of sending an orphan to school for one term

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£500 will provide textbooks, uniforms and teaching materials for 50 children for one school year

£1000 will provide all the resources needed to carry out a Prevent Abadonment of Children Today (PACT) event and enlighten up to 10,000 people about the belief in witchcraft and the need to protect child rights




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£30,000 Oron Project Appeal Launched for Christmas 2008

Stepping Stones Nigeria has been aware of the shockingly high rates of child abandonment and witchcraft belief in Oron Local Government Area since we began working in Nigeria in 2005. In order to address this worrying situation we aim to establish a model street child project in this area in 2009. This project will have strong focus on child protection, community enlightenment, family reunification and will provide education, shelter and welfare to hundreds of children that desperately need our help. If we are to achieve this aim we need your support!!! Please do think of us this Christmas and consider donating towards this ambitious project.

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Had a long discussion with this other guy today...Sam Itauma, who five years ago, rescued four children accused of witchcraft. He now struggles to care for over 150 in a makeshift shelter, cramped apartment and school called CRARN (Child Rights and Rehabilitation Network).

Tsohon Soja
Nov 14, 2008, 12:59 AM
These few weeks have been really heavy for me. After the Okere-Arogundade Wonder', this video report actually should be the last in attempts by 'evil' to shame me of my Nigerian identity. Its just preposterous and annoying.

I am here (where?) in another international community studying and have to explain and explain away to all the hundereds of citizens I am in school with about all these unexplainable rubbish flooding from Nigeria.

We need to appreciate that there is a lot of work to be done in Nigeria in several aspects, but particulary the issues of poverty and the total absence of education and its infrastructure. The Northern 'Almajiranci' and all these kind of nonsense that go on in Southern Nigeria in the name of whatever.

People should watch the on-going CNN documentary on Jim Jones Guyana deaths as a warning on the extent of these kind of church things:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/11/09/sot.jim.jones.massacre.cnn?iref=videosearch

All these are reasons for 'National Unity'. We must come together to fight all these 'reversal trends' to civilization in Nigeria.

Is there a people-oriented ... in ....

Oh God! Why?

Alata
Nov 14, 2008, 08:53 AM
Who the hell is Evangelist Helen Ukpabio?

You hear these type of people and you shake your head in pity. What kind of god do these people serve? How gullible can a people be?

These are the types of annoying stories that transforms an otherwise strong Christian into an irredeemable atheist.

They serve the god of Jesus Christ, "the light of the world" and Allah "the enlightened one". (lucis = light; lucifer = the bringer of light).
Very few alcoholics, smokers, the religiously delirious, or other drug abusers will confirm that their drug of choice can be dangerous to themselves and others until it is too late. It is time to check the activity of "enlightenment" worshippers before they totally kill off the spirituality of humans worldwide.

Mikky jaga
Nov 14, 2008, 09:47 AM
They serve the god of Jesus Christ, "the light of the world" and Allah "the enlightened one". (lucis = light; lucifer = the bringer of light).
Very few alcoholics, smokers, the religiously delirious, or other drug abusers will confirm that their drug of choice can be dangerous to themselves and others until it is too late. It is time to check the activity of "enlightenment" worshippers before they totally kill off the spirituality of humans worldwide.

The gods of traditional idol worshippers are even worse!! They demand human sacrifices; demand human body parts for rituals; request devotees to drink blood and ca5rry sacrifices to three road junctions that dirty the environment.

Thank God for Christianity, these traditional religionists would have kept on sacrificing twins or throw them into evil forests. If the acivities of some tiny minorities (Akwa Ibom is one state out of 36, and the incident could not even be taken as representative of the whole state) can be used to rubbish Christianity worldwide, then some people must not have put their thinking caps on.

chanchaga
Nov 14, 2008, 10:39 AM
nero africanus,

You are spot on. Please can you organise a conference with all local government chairpersons in Nigeria and educate them. I hope many of them will have the intellectual ability to assimilate the knowledge::sad: you might impact on them. It does not have to be just the local government but that is the grass root of governance in Nigeria. That will be money well spent.

i think it is important to get to the root of these matter , in the so called spirituality of african peoples and culture and in the new wave of the pentecostal movement certain values emanating from african traiditional religion migrated across to christianity .

there is this knack for explaining everything in black and white , everything has a spiritual connotation and explanation and there is nothing like coincidence.

nothing just happens as a result of the physical imperfection of man , disease is of the devil, poverty is of the devil ,

this can be seen in todays nigeria where not just akwa ibom other states still beleive in ogbanje/abiku rather than seeing a child with sickle cell anaemia.

this can be extrapolated to the issue of child witches,

there are disturbed children , and these are physical ailments for which there needs to be a medical solution s ,

there are children with behavioural problems like

short attention span
hyperactivity
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
disruptive behaviour disorder
agressive anti solcia behavior

the problem is that once these is noticed , it is termed witctcraft

this is not peculiar to akwa ibom alone,
indeed it is quite common in most of nigeria
the difference is that in the case of akwa ibom ,
they are accused of witchcraft and either "delivered" or killed
where as in a place like imo or ekiti, they will be taken to the local pastor for prayers and deliverance.

more important this is the sympthoms of wider locaL malaise which is as a result of decayed medical infracture , poverty and ignorance people try to seek solutions to problems in a way they only know how or open to them

ukpabio is like any other pastor in nigeria , sucked down in a whirlpool of deceit, ignorance , and superstition . the pastors are milking the people dry by playing on their ignorance and it is manifesting itself in these forms.

soyinka used this as the central them in the trial of brother jero , where the pastor played on the gullibility of the followers

he wrote this a long time ago so you can imagine how long this has been with us

what we are seeing is the result of the collapse of government.

what is happening in akwaibom is only its more extreme forms.

the accusations of witchcraft is the same as that of a political aspirant in ebonyi who was unhealthy as a result of a sedentary lifestyle, coupled this with the stress of running for public office . the result was that his blood pressure shot through the roof and he came down with a stroke , they immediately accused his opponent who went ahead to win the elections of witchcraft.

how?
even when his doctor warned him that his heart may not be able to withstand the tension and stress of running for public office.

in the accusation of witchcraft , this fact ids conviniently forgotten

it is like the tomato seller whose child came down with an unknown ailment which wiped out her trading capital , she then goes to accuse her neighbour in the market who always refused to give her change as having struck her child down and destroying her business.

the child is sick with thyfus( not typhoid) the doctors dont know what it is , the treatment wiped out her capital , thereby destroying her working capital and her business

the biggest problem is that most of these things cannot be tackled in isolation, there needs to be a wholesome solution.

children should be protected by their primary caregivers and not tortured and killed for witchcraft.

this is a systemic problem

what if we decide to engage in awareness and promulgate laws about what preachers preach , and outlaw accusations of withccraft.

if people have no access to healthcare , they will still use pastors as substitutes for doctors
if people are poor and have no jobs , they will still look for scapegoats to blame for their failure
if people are poor they tend to be very religious and superstitous

these animals called pastors need to have their roles clearly defined , which is salvation of the human soul alone.

witchcraft and withcraft accusation need to be completely and totally outlawed for there is no such thing

that brings us to the hypocrisy of a lot of posters here who live in possession and withcraft from posts in the past , but are here expressing outrage ..... :confused1

emj
Nov 14, 2008, 06:21 PM
Warning...Graphic!!!

http://crarn.tripod.com/id4.html

christen08
Nov 14, 2008, 06:33 PM
such a sad and disturbing story. its seems so unbelievable that such acts of ignorance and sheer stupidity and wickedness still exist in modern day nigeria.

i believe this is deep rooted in poverty and illiteracy. of course you would not find the rich people in Nigeria labelling their children witches,starving them for weeks and raining all sort of torture on them would you! definitely not.

God bless the likes of Gary and Sam for dedicating and risking their lives in aid of these poor innocent children.
and let us all pray that one day God will touch the heart of all those involved including those ignorant and wicked parents, the so called prophets and prohetesses, the pastors and pastoreses (esp the self appointed voice of Nigeria-can u imagine?) for them to realise that all what they are doing is WRONG!WRONG!!WRONG!!! and turn a leaf!

smilee
Nov 14, 2008, 07:42 PM
For those outside Europe.


African Witch Children Pt 1 (2008) [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJSME0TORw


African Witch Children Pt 2 (2008) [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7C8Znyf510&feature=related


African Witch Children Pt 3 (2008) [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE8epBkSPfo&feature=related


African Witch Children Pt 4 (2008) [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYG-h1avVrc


African Witch Children Pt 5 (2008) [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nH8ZJbJ9lY&feature=related


African Witch Children Pt 6 (2008) [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXUKF8dHf4A&feature=related



For Those that missed it.


http://www.channel4.com/video/brandless-catchup.jsp?vodBrand=saving-africas-witch-children

smilee
Nov 14, 2008, 07:46 PM
I just finished crying my eyes out watching these kinds of atrocities happening in our own backyard. This is absolutely crazy!!!

AwakeNigeria
Nov 14, 2008, 07:56 PM
The yardstick for measuring true godliness is selfless service to humanity. Anything short of this is satanic, whichever Scriptures you are reading.

Christians believe Jesus came to give life; abundant life. He did not come to destroy children, family values, etc. Apostle Paul warned in one of his epistles that "dear brothers and sisters, pattern your lives after mine, and learn from those who follow our examples. For I have told you often before, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ. Their future is eternal destruction. Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and all they think about is this life here on earth." Phil 3:17-19

Are Mrs. Helen Ukpabio and these fake end-time pastors listening? 'Awon oja ile onile bo ti won mole' (Those who delight in achieving happiness at the expense of others' sorrow.)

Homeboy
Nov 14, 2008, 08:00 PM
This is Evil nothing else. Where is the 'Rule of law' President when they need him most? Somebody should pay for this. Does things like these still exist in this world? I am in shock. Tufiakwa.

.bebi
Nov 14, 2008, 09:09 PM
The program will be on air again at 10pm UK time on sunday on More 4.

area boy
Nov 14, 2008, 11:59 PM
I saw the trailer for the documentary and decided there and then not to watch it. In the same week of a graphic documentary on the happenings in DR Congo and Africa in general, It would have been too depressing.

An individual donates N1bn to a political party, yet in the same country, children continue to die and be mercilessly exploited for the want of basic needs. The avoidable poverty and injustice in Nigeria and much of Africa allow ills like this to flourish.

Charities and us as individuals can play a role in changing things, but it will need a big push by a responsible goverment to really make it happen .... but I forget, this is Nigeria and by extension, This Is Africa. :sad:

RAYNOSA
Nov 15, 2008, 11:12 AM
One more reason not to visit churches in Nigeria especially....you will be initiated into witchcraft without even knowing it.......after they have collected their tithes and you are broke of course....you become a witch.

Another religious tragedy.

Were are the defenders of Christianity on this thread...........They all came down on Muslims and Islam when it was reported that a 13 years old girl was stoned to death in far away Somalia.
Look at this happening in our own backyard.

I will prefer if the Heading of this thread is changed to:Churches Abusing Children in Nigeria.

salstep
Nov 15, 2008, 12:07 PM
Those in UK WATCH channel 4 NOW.
Savin african children. - focus on Nigeria


SICK

.bebi
Nov 15, 2008, 12:07 PM
<br />This disturbing program aired on Channel 4 UK looks at the superstition and poverty, coupled with false Christian teaching in Akwa Ibom, and the subsequent effect upon the lives of innocent young children.
<br /><br />
Contains disturbing images.<br /><br />

Please watch all six parts<br /><br />

Part 1<br />

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EUJSME0TORw&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EUJSME0TORw&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Part 2<br />

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/u7C8Znyf510&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u7C8Znyf510&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Part 3<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE8epBkSPfo
Part 4<br />
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NYG-h1avVrc&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NYG-h1avVrc&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Part 5<br />
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0nH8ZJbJ9lY&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0nH8ZJbJ9lY&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Part 6<br />
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXUKF8dHf4A
<br><br><a target="_blank" href=http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10710><b>..Read the full article</b></a><br>

lumidii
Nov 15, 2008, 02:39 PM
Come, how can a Police Officer (DPO for that matter) be wearing a native attire on duty? Look at the monkey, a whole Senior officer, sat, crossed his legs and talked nonsense! Mr Ayes Deilo, Divisional Police Officer, Esit Eket (Go find another job, OK)

Everything is wrong with Nigeria abegi!

He was showing off in his lace, abi now? let oyinbo see him in his expensive lace. And His Excellency nko? his dongaris made the poor kids wait outside in the scorching heat for 4hours, he wouldn't have granted them audience if not for the fact that he was on his way out, as we saw him departing the premises immediately afterwards. He wasn't even properly briefed about what the situation was, otherwise he wouldn't have asked the the silly question of whether the kids were living with their parents. His female aide had to rescue him from dropping any more clangers.

That is one glaring example of how leaders are shielded from the struggles and pains of their followers. A considerable chunk of the problems we've had with our leaders has been due to stupid advisers, assistants, aides, and their sycophancy.

At least the Governor saw to it that the Child protection law was adopted in his state.

Lastly, for all the charitable deeds that the English man has done, it'd have been better if he'd resisted the chuckle about the poor girl being a walking advert for consumerism, afterall he packed all those goodies for the little girl. Just a tad insensitive. Overall, it took an English man to travel to Akwa-Ibom to bring this injustice out to the world. I hope and pray that the Nigerian residents running the charities don't receive a backlash from Helen Ukpabio's followers.

VOR
Nov 15, 2008, 02:55 PM
He was showing off in his lace, abi now? let oyinbo see him in his expensive lace. And His Excellency nko? his dongaris made the poor kids wait outside in the scorching heat for 4hours, he wouldn't have granted them audience if not for the fact that he was on his way out, as we saw him departing the premises immediately afterwards. He wasn't even properly briefed about what the situation was, otherwise he wouldn't have asked the the silly question of whether the kids were living with their parents. His female aide had to rescue him from dropping any more clangers.

That is one glaring example of how leaders are shielded from the struggles and pains of their followers. A considerable chunk of the problems we've had with our leaders has been due to stupid advisers, assistants, aides, and their sycophancy.

At least the Governor saw to it that the Child protection law was adopted in his state.


Don't mind these govt officials, I am certain if there were another route out of govt house the governor would have taken it!

Apparently, the Comm visited the orphanage a couple of weeks back and since then they haven't heard a word from the govt. Meanwhile, the report we are getting is they are now facing a food crisis at the orphanage!!

If only those PDP people will see fit to donate some thousands (not billons o) to these orphanages, I will be a happy Nigerian!

VOR
Nov 15, 2008, 02:58 PM
I saw the trailer for the documentary and decided there and then not to watch it. In the same week of a graphic documentary on the happenings in DR Congo and Africa in general, It would have been too depressing.

An individual donates N1bn to a political party, yet in the same country, children continue to die and be mercilessly exploited for the want of basic needs. The avoidable poverty and injustice in Nigeria and much of Africa allow ills like this to flourish.

Charities and us as individuals can play a role in changing things, but it will need a big push by a responsible goverment to really make it happen .... but I forget, this is Nigeria and by extension, This Is Africa. :sad:

I agree Area boy, but don't wait for govt on this issue. Please please please do whatever you can. Go to the website advertised above and see what you can do. If you wish to donate directly to the orphanage, we can provide the contact number for the man that runs it. Do something, see it as giving those kids a Christmas gift this year:)

RAYNOSA
Nov 15, 2008, 03:34 PM
Don't mind these govt officials, I am certain if there were another route out of govt house the governor would have taken it!

Apparently, the Comm visited the orphanage a couple of weeks back and since then they haven't heard a word from the govt. Meanwhile, the report we are getting is they are now facing a food crisis at the orphanage!!

If only those PDP people will see fit to donate some thousands (not billons o) to these orphanages, I will be a happy Nigerian!

Haba Olori
These govt officials have more than 1001 ways to flee..........Don't forget the days of Ribadu Nuhu lead EFCC.
The Governor only came out when he was told an Oyinbo-Man was involved........He Simply came out to score some cheap political score perhaps
knowing it might be viewed abroad.
Olori if you ask the governor to mention part of his achivements so far trust me he will be quick to mention how helped these poor kids.

Idahota
Nov 15, 2008, 03:38 PM
He was showing off in his lace, abi now? let oyinbo see him in his expensive lace. And His Excellency nko? his dongaris made the poor kids wait outside in the scorching heat for 4hours, he wouldn't have granted them audience if not for the fact that he was on his way out, as we saw him departing the premises immediately afterwards. He wasn't even properly briefed about what the situation was, otherwise he wouldn't have asked the the silly question of whether the kids were living with their parents. His female aide had to rescue him from dropping any more clangers.

That is one glaring example of how leaders are shielded from the struggles and pains of their followers. A considerable chunk of the problems we've had with our leaders has been due to stupid advisers, assistants, aides, and their sycophancy.

At least the Governor saw to it that the Child protection law was adopted in his state.

Lastly, for all the charitable deeds that the English man has done, it'd have been better if he'd resisted the chuckle about the poor girl being a walking advert for consumerism, afterall he packed all those goodies for the little girl. Just a tad insensitive. Overall, it took an English man to travel to Akwa-Ibom to bring this injustice out to the world. I hope and pray that the Nigerian residents running the charities don't receive a backlash from Helen Ukpabio's followers.




I thought it was very embarrassing and sad that the governor was ignorant and kind of smilling without any show of compassion for the deplorable plight of those kids. Yes he has adopted the child protection law but I'm sorry his show of lack of sensitivity and compassion just grates on my nerves

It was my very good friend here phone me and asked me to tune to the channel and I must confessed I have still not been able to get over the shock of what I saw in that documentary. I wept for those children and I and my friend haven't stopped talking about it.

I am so glad that my friend has coopted me and others into doing something about it. And I want to say that to all those who have been so moved to do something may god bless and reward you all bountifully.

Idahota
Nov 15, 2008, 03:43 PM
This is Evil nothing else. Where is the 'Rule of law' President when they need him most? Somebody should pay for this. Does things like these still exist in this world? I am in shock. Tufiakwa.


That was exactly how I felt. Those people subjecting those children to such abuse and torture are :twisted::twisted: and pure :evil::evil::evil:

blondie
Nov 15, 2008, 04:47 PM
Three inch long nail driven into the skull of a child, to force out a confession.. :eek:

And that child ended up retarded. This is horrendous! I have never been more upset in a long while. Mary Slessor must be rolling in her grave !

Exxcuzme
Nov 15, 2008, 05:03 PM
For those who thinks this is isolated to Akwa Ibom State, you better think again. Most of us dont know what is going on that country called Nigeria. Our own news media should be the one revealing these type of shameful practices and educating the citizens but they are busy chasing yellow envelopes and Amala.

Thank God for the digital age, at least it is opening our eyes to the evils that is around us. The million question is WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO?

RAYNOSA
Nov 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
Just imagine this nonsense,Someone charging upto N400k to abuse these Children all in the name of delivering Children from witchcraft.

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/index.php/content/view

Dupsie
Nov 15, 2008, 05:44 PM
Someone please tell me why it took oyinbo TV Channel 4 to air this programme and not NTA or any of those other stations. Can it really be true that no media house in Nigeria knew this was happening to produce an equally damning documentary to highlight the issue among Nigerians? Are we so caught up in the web of born-againism that we are all afraid of outing these evil pastors who would do anything for money? That it took an oyinboman being shown on channel 4 in England to inform Nigerians of these issue?? that instead of Nigerians mobilising themselves to solve their own problems - what do you know - we are all here acclaiming Gary as the new Mary Slessor as our saviour. How about Sam Itauma, who works directly with the children in Akwa Ibom, who sacrificed his own career, who had to content with threats to his life. Did you not hear Jelen Ukpabio describing him as the "problem?" Is Sam doing less work because he is not white???? Please lets stop and think. This issue is very traumatising for anyone who watched the programme but there is child witchcraft branding in many parts of Nigeria, in other parts of Africa. In congo, in Tanzania where Albinos are being used for money rituals etc. Are we going to wait for channel 4 to show another programme before doing something about it ourselves??? Can we learnt to love and value ourselves and not wait for others to come and save us????????

RAYNOSA
Nov 15, 2008, 05:53 PM
Someone please tell me why it took oyinbo TV Channel 4 to air this programme and not NTA or any of those other stations. Can it really be true that no media house in Nigeria knew this was happening to produce an equally damning documentary to highlight the issue among Nigerians? Are we so caught up in the web of born-againism that we are all afraid of outing these evil pastors who would do anything for money? That it took an oyinboman being shown on channel 4 in England to inform Nigerians of these issue?? that instead of Nigerians mobilising themselves to solve their own problems - what do you know - we are all here acclaiming Gary as the new Mary Slessor as our saviour. How about Sam Itauma, who works directly with the children in Akwa Ibom, who sacrificed his own career, who had to content with threats to his life. Did you not hear Jelen Ukpabio describing him as the "problem?" Is Sam doing less work because he is not white???? Please lets stop and think. This issue is very traumatising for anyone who watched the programme but there is child witchcraft branding in many parts of Nigeria, in other parts of Africa. In congo, in Tanzania where Albinos are being used for money rituals etc. Are we going to wait for channel 4 to show another programme before doing something about it ourselves??? Can we learnt to love and value ourselves and not wait for others to come and save us????????


Even if NTA and AIT aired this programme how many Nigerians do you think would see it..........Think about ECN,NEPA abi na PCHN.
I pray Sam Itauma lives long.

katampe
Nov 15, 2008, 06:42 PM
Ko l'orun so wa (translated, means make God dey protect us). The juju believers, this is what juju believing is all about, but this time it is mostly amongst the illiterates and less educated. In reality it is not different from acts of omission or commission by well educated men.

Interestingly, we have another white man to save the kids. Where are African ideologues when we need them most. A people in denial, a country in denial, so much for everything that is getting better in the country. I feel a chill watching this ill on video.

Felix
Nov 15, 2008, 07:27 PM
We have a long way to go..., very very looooooooong way to go.., it even seems like we are going backwards..:confused1

emj
Nov 15, 2008, 07:31 PM
WAYS TO HELP


There are numerous ways you can choose to help the witch branded children in Akwa Ibom state Nigeria . You may elect to fund in any of the following ways:

CHILDREN GOING TO HIGHER SCHOOL

Some of the children at the CRARN shelter are attending secondary school. Since they cannot go to nearby school because of the stigma, we take to distance schools. You can help to buy bicycle for them or pay for their hostel and feeding for them to continue with the school.



LEARNING TRADE SKILLS

Learning trade skill is one of the easiest ways to reintegrate the children into the society. Children who could not go to school because of their age, having lived in the bush or on the streets for about 4 to 7 years before they came to CRARN are encouraged to acquire trade skills outside of CRARN centre. You can support them with bicycles, trade fees and feeding.



ACCOMODATION

The number of rescured children are growing every day, though we find it difficult to take in more children as the shelter is already overcrowded. But we cannot resist taking in children who are gravely attacked or tortured and carried with grievious injuries, some times with broken head, limb, laceration machetes cut, etc.



A 10X10 room meant for 6 children is now used and slept in by 19 – 20 children. We know this is not a healthy development for the growth of children. You may donate towards the building of two dormitory block for the 152 children.



FEED A CHILD

Feeding the growing number of these children who are between ages of 2 to 16 is still a night mare. In the past three months the prices of food have tripled a meal of N150 per day. CRARN does not have sufficient resources to feed this number of children. We will appreciate your effort to alleviate this biting food problem



STAFF WAGES AND VOLUNTEERS ALLOWANCES

While we appreciate efforts of some kind individual who support in the payment of some of the staff wages especially, teachers and caregivers of the CRARN children Academy, CRARN still need funds to pay for other staff both teaching, administration staff and to support volunteers in the centre and at the community level who mobilize and advocate for these children write/report cases of assault or killing; rescue children in critical state.



ADVOCACY & ENLIGHTENMENT CAMPAIGN

Advocacy and enlightenment campaign by CRARN is also paramount, other chiefs, religions leaders, women groups, community leaders etc. Though very difficult to convince people that these children are not witches at all. It is even disquieting for people to listen to you discussing child witches issue holding that such is a false belief. It is even worst with some extreme religious person. But this is the only way to reduce the phenomenon. Hopefully your support will reduce the number of children on the streets and bushes, number of children to be branded witches and subsequent attacks.



HEALTH CARE SERVICE



The children at CRARN are having it difficult to have access to medical services. CRARN still pay for their medical bills devoid of any subsidization.


Thanks Sam
The President Child's Right And Rehabilitation Network (CRARN), Ikot Afaha-Idung Ukpa, P. M. B. 1042 Eket, Akwa Ibom State, Nigeria. Visit our websites @ www.crarn.org or http://crarn.tripod.com Phone (Hotline ): +2348026693099
Talk to the children direct, call +2348086754666 Regististered with Corperate Affairs Commission Abuja, Nigeria. Charity Number: CAC/IT/No 27195CRARN: Protecting and rehabilitating .


PS>.....following several discussions i had with Sam Itauma, ....the above was what i received through E-Mail today.....for those interested in doing something...you have all the information you need stated above...and for we that are working as a Group will continue our deliberations through the normal channel.....thanks:arrow:

godfather
Nov 15, 2008, 08:09 PM
Is the government doing anything about this?

I wish I have the capabilities to nuke all those m.o.r.o.n.s.:twisted::twisted::twisted:

godfather
Nov 15, 2008, 08:16 PM
This looks to me like another Jonestown repeating itself in Nigeria. I think SSS/FBI should get involved.

[ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9111740369454241202

katampe
Nov 15, 2008, 08:25 PM
hmmmm, I wish i buy your idea, but maybe in the interim. I think a more responsible approach is to find out how much oil is being prospected from that region.I thought Akwam Ibom was an oil producing state.

Is it not madness that the earth bequeathed by their forefathers is being looted by some few elites from other parts of Nigeria and some of their privileged sons and daughters who have sold out?

The real issue should be addressed from Abuja by government and the so called legislature. There are billions enough to take care of these kids for life. These kids are not beggars, but few Nigerians like Otedola are the ones that have stolen their oil wealth and rendered them useless and without a voice.

The Otedolas and their colleagues in other parts of the country should pay their bills. That is what is called rational thought, not the fake donations people are calling for. Until people sit tight and understand how economy works and who loses and who benefits in the so called system called Nigeria, we will continue to have all manners of prescriptions that don't address the real issues of the county.



PS>.....following several discussions i had with Sam Itauma, ....the above was what i received through E-Mail today.....for those interested in doing something...you have all the information you need stated above...and for we that are working as a Group will continue our deliberations through the normal channel.....thanks:arrow:

FoxCatcher
Nov 15, 2008, 08:41 PM
I've been trying with disbelieve to watch the video on my internet connection since yesterday without success. My Reltel (or Zoom as they are known) makes watching mutimedia on the net a frustrating business.

However, the pics and the graphic descriptions I've read on this thread and elsewhere continues to sicken and enrage me. I have been a Pentecostal for over 25 years. I have worked and/or interacted with some of the 'frontline' ministers during this period in various ways. I have spoken out or written severally against many unscriptural teachings/practices of some leaders which is described as Simony (i.e. commercialisation of the gospel and God's gifts).

H/e, I have never heard or experienced such sickening and appalling acts 'in God's name' as the present reports. When condemnable and dubious teachings or religious scams are perpetuated against adults; many of whom are educated to graduate level; there's that allowance that at least they went into it with 'open eyes'.

H/e, for such wicked and barbaric practices to be directed against defenceless children and minors as exposed in this report is wickedness of the most perverse and barbaric nature. These 'Pastors' are capitalising on the natural 'fetish' mindset, ignorance of our people and superstitions of our traditional culture to create a syncretic 'gospel' or Christianity that has no biblical foundation and which Paul, Peter or the apostles who gave their lives to propagate would turn in their graves and curse to behold.

There are certain classes of people the Bible warns us to avoid victimising or offending: the orphan (children),the widow, the poor and the stranger (Ex. 22:21-25; Zec 7:10) as God Himself is their Defender. Jesus went further by rebuking His disciples' treatment of small children:

Matt 19:14-15 TLB

But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and don't prevent them. For of such is the Kingdom of Heaven." 15 And he put his hands on their heads and blessed them before he left.

Matt 18:2-6 TLB

2 Jesus called a small child over to him and set the little fellow down among them, 3 and said, "Unless you turn to God from your sins and become as little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. 4 Therefore anyone who humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. 5 And any of you who welcomes a little child like this because you are mine is welcoming me and caring for me. 6 But if any of you causes one of these little ones who trusts in me to lose his faith, it would be better for you to have a rock tied to your neck and be thrown into the sea.

In the several occassions where the early disciples confronted occultic forces in the Bible, they emphasised the non physical nature of the combat with evil forces. Paul clearly stated we are not fighting 'flesh and blood' but spiritual forces of evil controlling the present world system. He instructed Christians to take up non physical armour: Truth, Faith, Salvation, Righteousness and our sword being God's Word (Eph 6:10-18).

On another occassion, it was reported of those who practiced witchcraft before their conversion:
Acts 19:18-20 TLB
Many of the believers who had been practicing black magic confessed their deeds and brought their incantation books and charms and burned them at a public bonfire. (Someone estimated the value of the books at $10,000. ) 20 This indicates how deeply the whole area was stirred by God's message.

At no time did the early Christians execute the Old Testament law: 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' often erroneously quoted by these misguided or mischievious modern 'exorcists'.

If the above reports are therefore true, then these 'men and women of god' cannot be serving the same God of the Christian Bible. They are serving their own bellies and selfish desires.

So strongly has these things affected me that, I intend to write Mrs. Ukpabio with a copy to the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria. If she was reported accurately, then one must question her claim to a calling by the Jesus Christ who said these things in the Bible. One must further respectfully question her status as a woman, a mother and an human being. If she admitted on camera these outrocities, then she should be prosecuted along with those assisting her under our criminal laws.

I am a Pentecostal and I am sickened and ashamed of what I've read and seen on this thread. I'm willing to join any action that will help these children and more importantly eradicate this wicked and ungodly practice.

Ciao

bobokite
Nov 15, 2008, 09:49 PM
The witches i identified in the video are Helen Ukpabio and his machette wielding men...in a civilized world they are supposed to be behind bars serving life terms...

CIkpatt
Nov 15, 2008, 09:55 PM
Folks:

Without a doubt, the scope of horror and disgust generated by the documentary is beyond description. Those abused kids are stronger than I can ever be; I watched speechless most of the time, angry, cursing, and crying because of raw abuses those kids have been made to go through.

While charlatans are seen at work in the documentary, we should know that poverty, lack of education, myths and greed power most cases of child abuse in Nigeria. Also, no one should paint Christianity with a broad brush reflecting both insanity and irresponsibility displayed by those few charlatans. The charlatans do not represent or teach the sound and everlasting doctrines of Christ; they are no Christians but new age spiritualist and criminals who deserve prosecution and harsh sentences when convicted.

What you guys have seen is far from being the norm in Akwa Ibom State. However, the point I must emphasize is that no incident of child abuse is a light matter, let alone such ones highlighted in the documentary. There are millions of peace loving Akwa Ibom folks who are decent Christians and abhor such evil practices.

Governor Akpabio, I believe, is a very compassionate man and can be easily/deeply touched by stories such as narrated in the documentary. I am sure Gov. Akpabio will not only give much teeth to the AKS Child Rights Act 2008, but is determined to frontally and quickly stop the menace.

Not only so, many Akwa Ibom indigenes at home and in the Diaspora have pledged to do all things necessary to fight child and other human rights abuses. Other Nigerians may sieze the occassion of this documentary to investigate and fight similar cases of gross abuses in Nigeria. We should understand this to be a serious human rights abuse problem reflective of what is going on in various parts of Nigeria and Africa.

VOR
Nov 15, 2008, 09:55 PM
Foxcatcher! As a Christian, I thank you!!

There is a group working already on this, let Emj, Valteena or I know if you are interested in working with this group and we'll PM you details. Thanks

emj
Nov 15, 2008, 11:00 PM
hmmmm, I wish i buy your idea, but maybe in the interim. I think a more responsible approach is to find out how much oil is being prospected from that region.I thought Akwam Ibom was an oil producing state.

Is it not madness that the earth bequeathed by their forefathers is being looted by some few elites from other parts of Nigeria and some of their privileged sons and daughters who have sold out?

The real issue should be addressed from Abuja by government and the so called legislature. There are billions enough to take care of these kids for life. These kids are not beggars, but few Nigerians like Otedola are the ones that have stolen their oil wealth and rendered them useless and without a voice.

The Otedolas and their colleagues in other parts of the country should pay their bills. That is what is called rational thought, not the fake donations people are calling for. Until people sit tight and understand how economy works and who loses and who benefits in the so called system called Nigeria, we will continue to have all manners of prescriptions that don't address the real issues of the county.

Katamps, whilst all manner of ideas are being postulated and worked on to find a lasting solution to man's inhumanity to man....Pray enlighten further as to what you meant by the above bolded part of your comment.

And BTW, whether you or I do something or fail to do anything...whether we put pressure on our govt or siddon look...others that are more Humane than us have been doing something ever since this issue was first brought to their Notice...years b4 we heard of it. That it's on Air/Internet now is just providence at work.



In the several occassions where the early disciples confronted occultic forces in the Bible, they emphasised the non physical nature of the combat with evil forces. Paul clearly stated we are not fighting 'flesh and blood' but spiritual forces of evil controlling the present world system. He instructed Christians to take up non physical armour: Truth, Faith, Salvation, Righteousness and our sword being God's Word (Eph 6:10-18).

@ Foxcatcher,
Am surprised at Helen too(if her Ministry is Deliverance...then she shld be casting out and setting them free and rehabilitating them/educating the parents), and not all that surprised at the other fake Prophets claiming to wrought deliverance when they are the ones that are most in need of it and Salvation.:arrow:
It is not he that Willeth nor Runneth but God that showeth mercy.

katampe
Nov 15, 2008, 11:15 PM
Pardon me, that was my emotion taking the better part of me. I appreciate the folks doing their best. They are to be commended. I was only suggesting that to end these sort of practices permanently, is it not about time we held those ruining lives to account.

I mean those folks whose actions are far removed from this theater of gory practices, I mean the folks that have rendered people uneducated and helpless and ignorant that they hardly know their right from their left. The government officials, the leaders making policies that leave people less educated. If these folks had resource control, won't wealth trickle down for them to better understand what these things mean?

Please accept my sincere apologies,I understand how useful the efforts of those donating their time and money. This is serious business.


[quote=emj;290353]Katamps, whilst all manner of ideas are being postulated and worked on to find a lasting solution to man's inhumanity to man....Pray enlighten further as to what you meant by the above bolded part of your comment.

And BTW, whether you or I do something or fail to do anything...whether we put pressure on our govt or siddon look...others that are more Humane than us have been doing something ever since this issue was first brought to their Notice...years b4 we heard of it. That it's on Air/Internet now is just providence at work.

draftman
Nov 15, 2008, 11:39 PM
Ouch! this is barbaric act in the name of Christianity, there are fanatic in any religion. Where are those that think is all Islamis fanatic, you see xtian are fatatics too. I could not watch anymore, this is criminal. Where are the authority.

TEchi
Nov 15, 2008, 11:56 PM
This is very heart wrenching and hard to watch. It's a horrible way for someone to knowingly make money off people less educated and underprivileged. The self proclaimed Bishop, the so called healer who on the video confessed to having killed about 110 people should be arrested and hanged by his balls upside down to die slowly.

I think the local functionaries should be arrested too for allowing this type of evil to perpetuate in their watch. I cried as I watch the wounds that were inflicted on some of these innocent children. There is no way we can say that the local functionaries are not in, in this terrible deal. The horrible false bishop charges N400, 000 per child. Where does all the money go? It is not being shared by the local functionaries to allow them to perpetuate this evil?

How is it that this horrible bishop can boast about killing 110 people without being charge to court; even if they are witches and wizards as he claimed. Something is horribly wrong here. We have a white man, a foreigner who has established a refuge for these children; he should be able to testify against this horrible evil. This is all very nauseating.
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

igalaman55
Nov 16, 2008, 12:11 AM
I watched the programme and saw the horror and the brutality.I saw the exploitation of the gullible.But my heart went out to the mother who took her 2 small children to the stepping stones charity. She came back to explain that the children could not remain with her because they had been identified as witches.She gave them up to save them!

tengallons
Nov 16, 2008, 01:26 AM
“Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers and sisters, that, you do unto me” (Matthew 25:40). That’s what real Christians believe. A country is best judged by how it treats its weakest. With this in mind, Nigeria is dangerously underdeveloped. I have noted on other threads that our greatest challenge in this phase of our evolution towards democracy is the securing of individual civil liberties. In Nigeria, there are many other versions of the abuse shown in this documentary. As a people, we have to organize and confront the outmoded and inhuman beliefs and practices that still inhabit our society like malignant tumours.

I am not surprised that these children “confessed” to being witches and wizards. They are merely playing out a self-fulfilling prophecy that comes with being mercilessly labeled for so long. As for those poisonous brands of Pentecostalism that require their members to take leave of their senses as they traumatize children, I hope they roast in hell. Time was, when religion was about securing salvation, now the emphasis in some of these Nigerian churches seems to be about doing battle 24/7 with the occult. As other villagers have hinted at, until we drain the swamps of ignorance and poverty, our people will continue to be victims of the kind of mentality we see in this painful video. All I see here are desperate adults scapegoating the most vulnerable members of society – children. Simply reprehensible.

It is sad that it took a British outfit to produce this. It just goes to show the yawning gap in investigative journalism in our country. For those who are sufficiently outraged, I hope in our various ways, we are moved to respond to this problem. On my part, for starters, I’ll be in touch with my old group, the African Network for the Prevention and Protection Against Child Abuse and Neglect http://www.anppcan.org/our_story

Admin, may I request that this story be left on the first screen of the NVS Homepage for a while?

YUAN
Nov 16, 2008, 03:43 AM
I watched the little girl with the scare of nail injury on her head with tears on my eyes. The pastor who claimed to have collected 400,000 Naira to cure witchcraft looks like someone who was drunk before conducting the interview.
The in-human treatment inflicted on those kids speaks much about us as people. It shows that ,we still have a long way to go before we start putting values on the lives of human being in our country. The behavior of those fake pastors /evangelist as seen in that documentary makes one wonder about our own version of Christianity and if our Bible is different from the rest of the world.
A lot of people who have been brainwashed by Helen Ukpabio's movie about witchcraft have used it as reference in inflicting jungle justice on those innocent kids. For Christ sake... What is movie sensor board doing? If we need to use movie to exhibit our culture, we need not portray ourselves as brutish Animals in movies as the power of movie is great in influencing the minds of many people.
Those People need to be arrested and dealt with according to law for crime against those innocent kids to serve as detrent to others and the Govt of Akwa Ibom state has a lot to do in re-orientating the people of the state through radio jingles.

miz_pdb
Nov 16, 2008, 07:36 AM
What do we do?

First it would be a mistake to put use the usual "Naija Ostrich head in the sand
" delusional style of thinking this is an Akwa Ibom or Cross River Issue. Let us not waste the leverage this has for change by pretending it isnt pervasive across naija

Look around and OPEN YOUR EYES!

That 11 year old girl that was raped to death during "deliverance" was in Lagos.

I applaud Sam Ituma for having the humanity and courage to take action even in the face of threats... I applaud stepping stones in the UK for supporting him over the years, doing this documentary and disseminating it. Without the documentary we wouldnt be on this board discussing this evil.

The Akwa Ibom Govt did a bit more than sign the child rights act... they provided funds to build the school where CRARN trains the kids and they funded a summit were a campaign against child abandonment was just started
Its not enough I know but hopefully with this docu airing the outrage should galvanize more action

it breaks my heart that so far CRAN has only been able to reunite 32 kids with thier families... i would have liked to see those families and how it was achieved

well im getting involved in screening this wherever i can with disscussions afterwards

miz_pdb
Nov 16, 2008, 07:49 AM
I had blogged about the raped girl

"The recent accounts of child abuse perpetuated in the much maligned name of God leaves me incandescent with rage and wanting to inflict bodily harm, lynch mob style. Recently the child witch saga climaxed for me with the raping to death of an 11 yr old girl submitted to a pastor BY HER OWN MOTHER for cleansing of witchcraft. The man left all alone with this girl raped her over days until she died and he fled. Her corpse was found with blood seeping from her vagina." (http://pdbraide.blogspot.com/2008/10/murder-in-his-name.html)

http://pdbraide.blogspot.com/2008/10/murder-in-his-name.html

Funmi Iyanda blogged about the child witches last year... It just leaves me very angry and tired...

FoxCatcher
Nov 16, 2008, 07:58 AM
Foxcatcher! As a Christian, I thank you!!

There is a group working already on this, let Emj, Valteena or I know if you are interested in working with this group and we'll PM you details. Thanks

VOR,

I'm interested. I've just watched the video whilst in church this morning. It is truly appalling.

Pls count me in. These sickos need to be stopped. Those children could be my kids; they're about same age.

God help us in this country.

Oluwato
Nov 16, 2008, 08:36 AM
O my God! I am just seeing this. Lord Jesus have mercy! I'm sorry I couldn't finish the video. I had to stop it after a few seconds. If anyone tried to do this to my children.....

I couldn't even read all the comments, we have to do something, please PM me on the group working on this... this is horrible!

izonboy
Nov 16, 2008, 08:44 AM
It is surprising that a thing like this still goes on in this country. Where, for God's sake, is the Nigeria police? How come people are allowed to get away with all this?

It is one thing to pursue a stupid belief in the nonsense of child-witches but it is quite another thing to act on such a stupid to belief to maim and kill. If the so-called prophet confesses to killing over a hundred people, why is he still free to roam the streets? This is also an indictment of the various human rights groups operating in Nigeria. In fact it is an indictment on all of us. We have failed the poor innocent children. May punishment be visited on all those who feast on the ignorance and vulnerability of the poor in our country.

Whoever is already working on this, please count me in. I would love to contribute my bit to addressing this menace.

hdd
Nov 16, 2008, 09:27 AM
please where are all the people that blame the "hausa/fulani hegemony" scapegoat for all Nigeria's problems? where did they go? ps these practices are the ultimate manifestation of corruption and evil.

Auspicious
Nov 16, 2008, 09:50 AM
Alright..

So I finally got myself to watch the first 3 minutes.

And althought the story is a heartbreaker of sorts..

I can't get pasts the 'priests' ' pronunciation of "witch"

So much so that anytime he says "Winch", I wince.

Poor me thought it's only said that way for comedy!

--

Every ONE of these ignoramuses and murderers should be arrested and subjected to the full wrath of the law of the land - assuming there's any in that lawless land of ours.

How long ago was Mary Slessor in that part of Africa to end the murder of twins again? A Hundred Years? Tuh, who knows!

If there was any proof that we haven't progressed in spite of the progress witnessed the world over, it would be that aeons after Ms. Slessor visited our shores to enlighten us, we still murder our children.

What a shame!

Auspy.

kpekere
Nov 16, 2008, 11:12 AM
I am so sad. Why? How can this happen in the 21st century. Look at that 5 year old child separated from her mother and sister because some weirdo prophetess who had already collected 15k from the mother of the child says the child is a witch! The child is threatened and basically ran out of turn by a machete weilding grown up!!

Look at that fake yankee accent man wanting to saw off the hand of that poor boy!

Other atrocities shown on the programme include;

A child made to seat on an open fire - because she is a witch
A child doused with kerosine and set ablaze - because she is a witch
A child had acid poured on her - because she is a witch
Two young boys chained outside a church for days - because they are witches (not wizards o, in these places they are all winches:rolleyes:)
5 children locked up in a room for years - because they are witches. Infact, the pastor said he has managed to deliver one of the young girls, "she is okay now, she even serves me in the bedroom"!!! what does this mean?A child had a nail hammered into her head - because she is a witch
Children set alight or macheted - because they are witches.

This must not go on.

I am going to find out more about Stepping Stones, find out ways I can assist. Surely, they must need funding.

Also I think pressure should be put on the government to prosecute these self proclaimed pastors and prophetesses - imagine that one saying on tv he has killed 110 children?

Helen Upkabio madam "I have a voice in Nigeria" has used her preaching and videos to encourage this practice - because she claims God sent her, which God? Let us bombard her website with protest letters or e-mails.

She is also a member of the Pentecostal Family of Nigeria, what are they doing about this?

At least the governor has signed the Child Act, lets just hope things get better for these children.


I asked this question at the time the eeediioooot was yapping the opps. I think your guess is as good as mine!

kpekere
Nov 16, 2008, 11:45 AM
Valteena

Still thinking up ideas. Dinner, fun walk, work/church/mosque collection. They say on their website that one can call for help and advice on this, I'll give them a call tomorrow.

Maybe we can even send them clothes, books etc - just thinking various ways to help. Will be happy to hear other ideas.

VOR,
Please let me know what we decide. I am game! And I promise to be around this time! Dinner sounds good. Okayy... I like food.

smilee
Nov 16, 2008, 12:02 PM
Winch (i thought it was only me that noticed lol) :D :D You are soooo unserious! Try and watch the rest of the film, it is an eye opener. The kind of bile that would come rushing up words can't explain.

Meeen illiteracy is a disease worse than HIV sef. Illiteracy has nothing to do with education. That is why these people can be easily brain washed into believing this nonsense. Prophetess my ar$@#!!! How can you ask me to bring money to pray for my pikin and me too will carry my 2 left legs & submit my salary?! We tend to treat these religious figures like mini gods. Rubbish!!! They are of flesh too & they can swindle anyone just like common 419ners. Learn to pray for yourself & read your bible. If you hear something fishy from a pastor get a 2nd, 3rd opinion. They ain't God!!!




Alright..

So I finally got myself to watch the first 3 minutes.

And althought the story is a heartbreaker of sorts..

I can't get pasts the 'priests' ' pronunciation of "witch"

So much so that anytime he says "Winch", I wince.

Poor me thought it's only said that way for comedy!

--

Every ONE of these ignoramuses and murderers should be arrested and subjected to the full wrath of the law of the land - assuming there's any in that lawless land of ours.

How long ago was Mary Slessor in that part of Africa to end the murder of twins again? A Hundred Years? Tuh, who knows!

If there was any proof that we haven't progressed in spite of the progress witnessed the world over, it would be that aeons after Ms. Slessor visited our shores to enlighten us, we still murder our children.

What a shame!

Auspy.

Anike
Nov 16, 2008, 12:29 PM
Please...

You mean the family, the mothers didn't resist these? Someone's babies were just taken away in their presence, and violated and mutilated just like that without putting up a fight?!:evil::evil:Poverty of the mind... it's not like they know any better. You would think that a mother's natural instinct will force any mother to protect [her] children over some beliefs.


I just got a confirmation now from a source in Nigeria that Helen Ukpabio writes for Nollywood and that she is a director on Christian Movies. Is this true?Helen Ukpabio is an actress/writer/director in Nollywood, mostly Christian movies on witchcraft. I once read that she claims she was a witch and is basically trying to use her movies to bring to light what she is privy to. The few of her movies I saw gave me the creeps.

.bebi
Nov 16, 2008, 01:02 PM
I think a law should be in place in Nigeria regarding opening of churches.

Helen Ukpabio has been around for a long time.I remember her face and name from posters from way back when I was young.She couldn't have started this indoctrination today.

A person who preaches this kind of nonsense should be behind bars or executed.Is this how she was delivered from the so-called winchcraft?

Then regarding the man that said they serve him in his bedroom(and he had this leery look on his face),2 things stood out for me.
1. What else goes on there,since they are already outcasts with nobody to defend them?

2.Don't we just love being masters in Nigeria?

Anike
Nov 16, 2008, 01:06 PM
They serve the god of Jesus Christ, "the light of the world" and Allah "the enlightened one". (lucis = light; lucifer = the bringer of light).
[...]
It is time to check the activity of "enlightenment" worshippers before they totally kill off the spirituality of humans worldwide.These things have nothing to do with religion. This is what happens when people choose to leave their brains on the back-burner or on permanent lock and follow every doctrine presented to them without examining and cross-examining it, in this case, out of one man's wickedness. Religion is never the devil, it's the people who follow blindly.

I very much agree with you .bebi; These people may need donations of any form too, but they need to have their brains re-programmed to be able to think independently, first.

katampe
Nov 16, 2008, 01:38 PM
It is not about brains per se , it is about the unquestioning attitude in our culture. In a western world, a kid at an early age is thought how to critically engage statements and people, ask questions that revolve around what, why and how.It is what sets the context for understanding things in an enlightened manner. It is the way the critical mind is groomed.

In Nigeria, mostly in every culture, the what is what we are saddled with. Then the conjectures begin to flow from the what, the witches start to appear, the wizards start to circulate, and confusion sets in. In return, all manner of activities happen when you have little understanding of an issue.

It permeates our every life. You can't question people older than you because of age, people take offense. You can't interrogate what people say because they brand it, and ship it off into a reserve that you can only acknowledge in passing and not pass comments.

Thinking is a process, it is hard work, it needs tools to sift through the rubbles of confusion and fallacy.It is what western civilization developed over time and through tutoring that has become a culture of inquiry in the west. It is a handy tool that shatters myth, received wisdom and opens up limitless opportunities for those that dare to interrogate.

When you interrogate, you begin to open up new areas of knowledge. The ability for the brain to go to sleep, or the brain being on the back burner shows an underlying cultural deficiency, the inability of people to be critical.

Is it not a wonder, that after Slessor eradicated killing of twins over 100 years ago, the same superstitious beliefs that undergirded earlier practices has emerged using celluloid as it medium and Christianity as its agency. It is a cultural deficiency.

It is that cultural deficiency that has not settled the role of juju once and for all. Once you settle the role of superstitious belief, you have given life to a new order, a new way of thinking about issues with reasoned facts, experiences, analogies against the practice of magic, dreams and vision.

Whatever you do, whether you send the folks to the slammer o, execute them, rain curses on them, or call for the shutting down of those churches, if you don't tackle the issues of why folks think the way they do, tackle the issues that make them vulnerable, when the judgment order of today goes, a relapse fever of cultural normality(abnormality of juju, winches, wizards) comes back again. It is what has happened after Slessor helped initiate us into the civilized world.

My dear Anike, this is what i tried to talk about on that juju thread. There are all manner of educated people that have this mindset. There are people that shout halleluyah like chants in some African traditional religion.There are all manners of names and services in Nigeria, holy ghost fire, mountain of fire and miracles, oke taborrah, olumba , olumba . All sorts of sick names that point to sick and deeply fetish practices.

Like Ken said somewhere, it helps explain why the country is grounded. The spiritual matters are the bane of our underdevelopment.Time to start debunking the crazy myth spun from religious corruption or scams that plague us.



These things have nothing to do with religion. This is what happens when people choose to leave their brains on the back-burner or on permanent lock and follow every doctrine presented to them without examining and cross-examining it, in this case, out of one man's wickedness. Religion is never the devil, it's the people who follow blindly.

I very much agree with you .bebi; These people may need donations of any form too, but they need to have their brains re-programmed to be able to think independently, first.

katampe
Nov 16, 2008, 01:43 PM
She never forced people to accept the faith, people agreed to accept the faith by exercising their free will. It is what happens in the north when someone that accepts his or her hand to be cut off accepts to be tried under sharia law. So you see sharia and Christianity in this mode are same, and the person practicing them are black people.

So, .bebi do you still have any other ideas on Ukpabio?


I think a law should be in place in Nigeria regarding opening of churches.

Helen Ukpabio has been around for a long time.I remember her face and name from posters from way back when I was young.She couldn't have started this indoctrination today.

A person who preaches this kind of nonsense should be behind bars or executed.Is this how she was delivered from the so-called winchcraft?

Then regarding the man that said they serve him in his bedroom(and he had this leery look on his face),2 things stood out for me.
1. What else goes on there,since they are already outcasts with nobody to defend them?

2.Don't we just love being masters in Nigeria?

Homeboy
Nov 16, 2008, 01:52 PM
Until the culture of spiritism either from babalawos or special prayer sessions is eradicated from our psyche, nothing anybody will do will lift black people form this eternal darkness. Africa is the dark continent with dark people and dark deeds. This is even potatoes, the real beef is what our people do in the name of rituals and cultism.

Anike
Nov 16, 2008, 01:54 PM
My dear Anike, this is what i tried to talk about on that juju thread. There are all manner of educated people that have this mindset. There are people that shout halleluyah like chants in some african traditional religion.There are all manners of names and services in Nigeria, holy ghost fire, mountain of fire and miracles, oke taborrah, olumba , olumba . All sorts of sick names that point to a sick and deeply fetish practices.I agree with you that there are a lot of schooled people that have the mindset demonstrated by Helen's adherents, Katamps. This is why I think this poverty is of the mind alone. At the root of this is a wicked(/or sick?) person manipulating people's minds, using what they want/their condition to get to them in order to satisfy her wicked(/or sick?) soul. God help us all. Yetunde Pereira, an Afro-Brazillian, wrote a peom, the Paradox, that I think is very apt now.... but can't seem to find. Speaks to people using the name of religion to propagate their selfish interests.

This is from a 08/02/08 publication on odili.net. I still can't find the concluding part to see what the reporter thought of this.

Source (http://odili.net/news/source/2008/sep/2/705.html)


The Palace Temple headquarters of Liberty Gospel Church, along Ndidem Usang Iso Road, Calabar, was filled to capacity for the seven days, August 17 - 24, that the programme, "Defeating Witchcraft Powers," lasted. There were two sessions for each day - morning and evening.

The morning session, which always started at 6 a.m., was used for counseling and screening of persons who wanted to know their witchcraft status. It was a prayerful, painstaking exercise with Evangelist Helen Ukpabio, General Overseer of the church and foremost film producer, presiding.

People, who wanted to know their witchcraft status and those who already knew it but wanted to quit the evil practice and severe relationship with the dreaded cult, participated in the screening.

They later met with the evangelist who prayerfully counseled them and gave information on their status.

The evening session always began by 5.p.m. It was a mixed grill, comprising sessions of choruses and praise singing, prayers and teachings on the character and activities of witches and their world. Ukpabio taught the people by herself. As she mounted the platform to teach, Ukpabio would assure the crowd, "At the end of this teaching, those of you that used to have witches on the roof of your houses will have them no more," adding, "My secret in life is that evil don't exist. And if they are found anywhere, they listen to my instructions." That direct confrontation of evil powers was greeted with a wild applause from the people.

She taught the people about the different types of witchcraft, particularly those practised in Africa, Nigeria and the local communities. According to Ukpabio, there is white, black, and red witchcraft. She put quite a number of what people know today as secret societies, cult or religions as white witchcraft, noting, "In white witchcraft, people are organised into various cult groups or religions and thought certain things contrary to the Word and will of God.

"Some of the things they do are believed to have the potential of protecting the member and making him prosperous while harming the others in the work place, business place, school, the neighbourhood, or family. All the same, it is witchcraft and harmful to him and others.

"In black witchcraft, the spirit gets directly into the human spirit. It can be dropped into someone's food and it develops. If you are initiated into it, you can do a lot of evil to people in the society. The black witchcraft is crude and dangerous. They act like beasts and have no sympathy or pity for humans."

She supported this with what the Bible says in the Book of Job, Chapter 41 verses 24 and 25. Ukpabio told the people that the witches practise their craft on their beds (meaning while asleep at night), coveting other peoples' fields and properties and taking them violently. Ukpabio cited a spot in the Calabar metropolis where she said the marine spirit is holding the people captive.

Hear her: "Nobody can do well in Akim market. People in the market would have done better than they are doing now in their businesses. There is a witchcraft coven there to stop their prosperity."

She said there are a lot of people who practise witchcraft without knowing and that most people become victims of witchcraft because of their ignorance of God, thereby becoming vulnerable to witches and demons. She said the marine spirit is witchcraft, adding, 'When it enters you, it does not want you to enjoy anything good or be prosperous. If you have the spirit of God in you, you will live to enjoy your life. If you have Jesus, then life will be sweet for you."

Constantly supporting her position with Bible passages, Ukpabio lamented that there weren't many prophets in the country involved in the fight against witchcraft, noting, "Many of our preachers are rather giving the excuse that not much is said about witchcraft in the Bible."

She equally condemned the belief and teaching of some secret cults that people who are good generally and do not bewitch other people or practically harm them cannot be attacked by evil men, evil powers, and witchcraft. "This is a false belief. The Bible says the witch looks for the innocent to attack, harm, and destroy. The innocent here includes someone that has a carefree attitude to life. They look for people who are not involved with God, have not repented or are not working in the vineyard of God. The witches look for the generous and liberal people to harm and destroy," she said.

Just as those who wanted to know their witchcraft status earlier waited painstakingly for their turns to have a one-on-one screening session with Ukpabio, the people who attended the evening segment, which always ended at about 11p.m., scrambled for convenient spots to sit and listen to the evangelist expose to them some of the secrets of the world of darkness. She also told them a lot about demons and powers like Lucifer and the fallen angels, Beelzebub, Leviathan spirit, and Marine spirit.

.To be continued tomorrow

katampe
Nov 16, 2008, 02:10 PM
Nah, i disagree. It is part cultural deficiency. If you were raised the way Akpabio was raised, you would behave the same way.The herd instinct pushes you to behave in the manner other people behave.

Even the idea that the issue poverty is of the mind alone is flamboyant in its premise and fallacious in its interrogation. In reasoned argument of cause to effect, you have committed a very grave error. There is nothing like one thing is the only cause of another thing. That is faulty reasoning.

These are the tools of thinking I speak to when I say people need to be cured from flamboyant premises that are dangerous and can rip a society apart. Poverty of the mind alone speaks to a mindset of absolutes , gross generalizations that philosophers and men of reason have argued against.

It is the same line of reasoning that Bush used to put the whole world in jeopardy. Anike, you see you commit grave errors without being a religious fanatic, now ask me, what do you expect a religious fanatic to do when you commit similar errors?


I agree with you that there are a lot of schooled people that have the mindset demonstrated by Helen's adherents, Katamps. This is why I think this poverty is of the mind alone. At the root of this is a wicked(/or sick?) person manipulating people's minds, using what they want/their condition to get to them in order to satisfy her wicked(/or sick?) soul. God help us all. Yetunde Pereira, an Afro-Brazillian, wrote a peom, the Paradox, that I think is very apt now.... but can't seem to find. Speaks to people using the name of religion to propagate their selfish interests.

This is from a 08/02/08 publication on odili.net. I still can't find the concluding part to see what the reporter thought of this.

Source (http://odili.net/news/source/2008/sep/2/705.html)

godfather
Nov 16, 2008, 02:18 PM
Very soon CNN will pick this documentary up and our own don dabaru anywhere in the world!

Cheii, I don die o!

Why don't they create an international law for this knd of thing like they have against war criminals since we don't have any sort of law and order in Nigeria.:idea:

First it was Abacha, then came four one nine now it is Hellen "jonetstown massacre" Ukpabio.

When are we gonna get a break?

*shakes head and heads for the door*

zeeka
Nov 16, 2008, 02:25 PM
Why is it, no Nigerian legislator,Government official, police officer makes any official comment.I did not hear officials of CAN/Pentercostal church saying anything.What is the Nigerian Films Censorship board doing abaut Helen Akpabio's film?

UnklGerard
Nov 16, 2008, 02:25 PM
Those in UK WATCH channel 4 NOW.
Savin african children. - focus on Nigeria


SICK

I watched the documentary. The revelations were tormenting. What was most instructive is the new infamously dirty role so called 'christian' churhes were now playing in our national life. Hellen Akpabio, a so-called pastor was a disgrace to watch, she had to be raving and yelling when asked simple questions and yet she is a soul winner! The devil will do better than her if he were to be interviewed in the same circumstances!

chidi opara reports
Nov 16, 2008, 02:33 PM
So what should be done to stop all these depravities in our beloved country?

Ajuzie
Nov 16, 2008, 02:44 PM
SORRY, Akwa Ibom people
SORRY, Akwa Ibom Women Union
SORRy, Akwa Ibom traditional leaders
SORRY, Akwa Ibom Govt.
SORRY, Akwa Ibom Child
SORRy, Gov. of Akwa Ibom state
SORRY, Akwa Ibom police Dept.
SORRY, Akwa Ibom state Dept. of Justice
SORRY, Edocution of Akwa Ibom
SORRY, for me and my black people
SORRY, for Africans
SORRY, for NIGERIAN Govt.

.bebi
Nov 16, 2008, 02:54 PM
She never forced people to accept the faith, people agreed to accept the faith by exercising their free will. It is what happens in the north when someone that accepts his or her hand to be cut off accepts to be tried under sharia law. So you see sharia and Christianity in this mode are same, and the person practicing them are black people.

So, .bebi do you still have any other ideas on Ukpabio?

Yep,she didn't force people but soon enough,we'll hear that she has participated in that type of exorcisim.Afterall,she must be practicing what she preaches.
Besides,by encouraging the people doing this,is she not aiding and abaiting the crime?

akuluouno
Nov 16, 2008, 03:33 PM
Villagers all Esteemed,

I am indeed happy with the responses to this latest among many evils that have befallen our fatherland. You may recall that I alerted the village to this fire that was about to be revealed via the UK Channel 4 tv documentary. As we speak, no newspaper or government official in Nigeria have written or said anything about the matter. Mark you it was another Oyibo man who came to bring light to this darkness that Africa and Nigeria is renowned for. It is Helen Ukpabio in Akwa Ibom today, who knows the hundreds o fother atrocities being perpetrated in one remote corner of Nigeria waiting for another Mary Slesssor or Channel 4 expose to come to light.
We sold our brothers and sisters vis slavery. As if this odium is not enough we have started on a venture to wipe away our future generation, breed babies for sale e.g at Enugu and even rebaptised slavery to human trafficking.
Villagers we are in deep trouble in Nigeria.

Anioma777
Nov 16, 2008, 03:52 PM
Very disturbing but nothing new. The only way to try to "stop" or do something positive is get in touch with these remarkable men below:-

1. Sam Itauma - search through the posts to see the contact information

2. The Englishman who made this documentary - Again search through the posts.

I think Vor and Valteena are arranging get in contact with them. I have pledged monthly payments to Sam Itauma and any other things I could send I will. I will rather give to these unfortunate kids than able bodied lazy greedy "cousins" back home:D So no matter how horrific PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR INTERNET MOUTH IS.

I don't like to say I know it all, but Nigerians need to really start being HONEST WITH THEMSELVES. Alongside WICKED CORRUPT OFFICIALS, CHURCHES AND THIS THEIR NOTION OF ANYTHING BAD HAPPENING TO YOU IS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF WINCH ( WITCH ),RELATIVE, CHILDREN, MAYBE EVEN YOUR PET.

Granted life for 90% of Nigerians is very very tough, but most of these poor people need to get a reality check. Your poor and your paying more and more money to you "EVIL PASTORS" and yet still poor....are these people devoid of common sense,but it should come as no surprise the emergence of these PENTECOSTAL,REDEEMED THIS AND THAT,CHURCH ON THE ROCK OR MOUNTAIN OR WHATEVER STUPID NAMES THEY GIVE THEMSELVES IN NIGERIA AND THE DIASPORA. Jesus did warn about false prophets "MANY WILL COME IN MY NAME PREACHING HEAVEN AND EARTH" or words to that effect. I often laugh until my guts are bursting at how many Nigerians carry bible and go for bible classes and the comical NIGHT VIGILS, and yet misinterpret or use the words in the bible to justify their own evil agenda.

Its no wonder EUROPEANS where quickly and easily able to subdue us not so much in military power but in our DIABOLICAL beliefs. The sad thing is that it is still inbred in our psyche. That good for nothing imbecile in the blue sports shirt who wanted to harm the child in the dusty football field in the footage made me weep.

Anyway my anger is subsiding now, try and donate,do what ever you can to help these two men help give these children a safer and prosperous life. A monthly donation of $1,£1 or N200 is not too much to ask.

I am no saint and not a church goer, but next time you pray, pray for these kids,Sam Itauma,the English man that God will continue to give them the courage to carry out their work and not get complecent,even pray for the evil Pastors and those with stupid diabolical beliefs as much I feel like torturing them:frown:

ONE LOVE!!!!!!!!!

Anike
Nov 16, 2008, 04:12 PM
Nah, i disagree. It is part cultural deficiency. If you were raised the way Akpabio was raised, you would behave the same way.The herd instinct pushes you to behave in the manner other people behave.Katamps,

It is easy for you to scrutinize ideas first partly because of your science-friendly background as well, I'll wager. That has nothing to do with the herd mentality. Culture does not push you to behave the way people behave but teaches you to behave in ways that the said culture (African, Science...) considers right. The science culture that I think you prefer taught you to ask questions first.


Even the idea that the issue poverty is of the mind alone is flamboyant in its premise and fallacious in its interrogation. In reasoned argument of cause to effect, you have committed a very grave error. There is nothing like one thing is the only cause of another thing. That is faulty reasoning.How so? I fail to see the flamboyance or fallaciousness of the assertion that it is poverty of the mind that will cause people to follow a belief blindly. You wrote, and I agree, that there are educated (i'll equate that to mean economically-comfortable) people who live like this as well. So what else drives these people, pray tell.


Anike, you see you commit grave errors without being a religious fanatic, now ask me, what do you expect a religious fanatic to do when you commit similar errors?No, I don't see just yet the error in my conclusion o. You are implying that our culture forces people to follow ideologies without asking questions and should be blamed for this... but I fail to see how any African culture can be blamed for people being gullible enough to allow the perpetuation of this wickedness all in the name of one man's definition of Christianity. This kind of thinking is what I find common amongst many elitist Africans. Blame the hapless, archaic African culture for everything. I fail to see the connection between African culture and the wickedness of this people o. It's not like any African leader has come to justify this.

Someone made reference to J...town of 1978 that was on TV (MSNBC or so) yesterday. What am I saying? Africa is not the only place where people follow a doctrine without thinking it through... Have you not studied Hollywood? I think it is prevalent in Africa because of poverty, but I don't believe that it is economic poverty that drives people to be this way. I believe it is poverty of the mind and other things, such as economic poverty, feed it.

Ewuro
Nov 16, 2008, 04:12 PM
SORRY, Akwa Ibom people
SORRY, Akwa Ibom Women Union
SORRy, Akwa Ibom traditional leaders
SORRY, Akwa Ibom Govt.
SORRY, Akwa Ibom Child
SORRy, Gov. of Akwa Ibom state
SORRY, Akwa Ibom police Dept.
SORRY, Akwa Ibom state Dept. of Justice
SORRY, Edocution of Akwa Ibom
SORRY, for me and my black people
SORRY, for Africans
SORRY, for NIGERIAN Govt.

I believe, you should replace the word 'SORRY' with 'SHAME ON YOU'. We can go the usual blame and abuse way. We can also criticise, analyse, and pseudo-intellectualise. All those amount to nothing, until we do a lot of things to dismantle a system that thrives on abuse of children and adults in all our societies.
That a young foreigner, British, has taken a bold initiative to protect our children from barbarian abuse, signifies our lack of true education and the attendant courage to govern ourselves into any form of civilisation.
No Nigerian, including myself should lay claim to true education and civility as long as this type of abuse persists in any part of Nigeria.

Rola
Nov 16, 2008, 04:35 PM
This documentary is beyond horrible.I'm completely speechless.So much wickedness on display...the man wielding a machete and threatening that 5 year old girl is a big disgrace.

To start with,the fake bishop who claimed to have killed 110 children should be arrested immediately.

Perhaps its time to regulate some of these fire brand pentecostal churches.

Please whatever we can do for these helpless,traumatised children in terms of donation,LETS DO IT.Thanks to those who have taken the lead already.

Exponent
Nov 16, 2008, 05:15 PM
The Bishop should be PUT TO DEATH IMMEDIATELY!!!!

This is what happens with people are DEVOID of education and SHUT OUT of markets.

This is what happens when Governments REFUSE to help its people.

The Bishop is a HUSTLER, and he's CAPITALIZING on FEAR.

I don't blame the Bishop - I blame the GOVERNMENT. Nigeria spends 0.9% of its GDP on education. The Government could give less than a damn about its people.


If that is the case.............WHY SHOULD THE OUTSIDE WORLD?

Keep in mind Nigeria have something China, Amerikka and Europe wants.......CHEAP OIL!

Therefore they are not going to say NOTHING!!!!!

This is an INTERNAL problem - that MUST BE SETTLED internally.

chanchaga
Nov 16, 2008, 05:16 PM
Awake all villagers,

i am ashamed of my country on this issue. I am ashamed of the leaders who can effect change and are doing nothing. I will be more ashamed with myself if i only write and talk about this and do nothing. I will be ashamed of all villagers that just talk about this and do nothing about it. I am ashamed that it took a british 29 year old man to go to nigeria to try and make a difference to this issue. He even registered a charity here in the uk to support the cause. I am ashamed that this is happeneing in the 12th largest producer of oil in the world.

Wake up and do something today.

Onyeachonam-Okwu
Nov 16, 2008, 05:49 PM
Tears dripped down my face. I could not watch it any longer. To imagine that this is happening in our former Easter Region is very horrifying and frightening. It reminds me of that Igbo governor that went to Okija shrine to get "ekrube" for his election.

Just a few weeks ago, we were all rejoicing that a black man is now the president of the United State of America and indeed the world. What an irony. If this video permeates the white world and the free world, it would make Obama look bad and the election contrived. I am so sad.

I used to be angry with Catholicism in Igboland. Maybe I shouldn't. The evangelical and penticostal literalists must be monitored and supervised. It is time.

All in all, anyone in that video suspected to be part of Child Witchcraft sermonizing should be brought to book and jailed. Children should be given copious public education with scholarships. Government must work here.

Onyeachonam-Okwu
Nov 16, 2008, 06:24 PM
First, it was Jeremiah Wright:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jeremiah+wright&rls=p,com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLF_enUS297&um=1&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#

then, Rev. David Manning:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY-to8M4hCI&feature=related


now Prophetess Helen Akpabio:
http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/

Is there any wonder then, why Africans, Blacks or Negroes or what have you are totally screwed up.

Anioma777
Nov 16, 2008, 06:42 PM
@Onyeachonam-Okwu

Tears dripped down my face. I could not watch it any longer. To imagine that this is happening in our former Easter Region is very horrifying and frightening. It reminds me of that Igbo governor that went to Okija shrine to get "ekrube" for his election.

Just a few weeks ago, we were all rejoicing that a black man is now the president of the United State of America and indeed the world. What an irony. If this video permeates the white world and the free world, it would make Obama look bad and the election contrived. I am so sad.

I used to be angry with Catholicism in Igboland. Maybe I shouldn't. The evangelical and penticostal literalists must be monitored and supervised. It is time.

All in all, anyone in that video suspected to be part of Child Witchcraft sermonizing should be brought to book and jailed. Children should be given copious public education with scholarships. Government must work here.

Don't be angry with Catholicism and other denominations. It is "MAN" that distorts and misuses the word of God for his own gain. I was telling an ex-gilrfriend a few years ago, you can read bible and have so called "Pastor" or whatever funny names they give themselves these days teach you how to pray and other crazy actions they perform, but the bottom line is that you really learn about the teachings based on life experience. Has it ever occured to "Christians" why Jesus spoke in parables? Also a pastor is not God, and any fool can wakeup one day and "claim" he had a dream from God that he should minister :D. Its all about money and taking advantage of people.

See what you can do for these kids and the "REAL CHRISTIANS IN NIGERIA" C.R.A.R.N. members who have taken it upon themselves to save and rehabilitate these children. For now forget the goverment they will only make you more angry.

Big-K
Nov 16, 2008, 06:56 PM
I was able to speak briefly with Sam Itauma yesterday and before the call went cold, he itemized his needs - in line with emj's earlier posting. As we already have some funds pooled to bring Christmas cheers to underprivileged kids, the committee members and myself agreed that some of that will go to CRAHN (spelling) in akwa ibom. Someone already donated $500 to NVS for onward transmission to the kids and I'll liaise with emj's team to see how NVS can help further.

Is anyone traveling to Akwa Ibom area during the holidays and willing to visit this group? If so please PM me.

Anioma777
Nov 16, 2008, 06:57 PM
@Onyenachorom-okwu

Not all are screwed up.:D but if after seeing these videos and lamenting about it you don't do anything about helping no matter how small (we all have our own problems) then you will be as bad as these evil doers.

I have often thought there is a curse on people of African descent when I am angry,but then I do a reality check and I become sane again.For if I continued in that same thought process, then I start entering the realms of oh maybe why i lost my job, or had an accident or whatever was because my aunty is a witch, oh somebody here on NVS does not want my progress, child witches...etc..etc. and all that nonsense. I don't for one ignore that evil forces are not around, but if one starts dabbling in a mental or physical way you only have yourself to blame. You can't serve two masters!!!!

It will get better one day fingers crossed.God has used the English man to highlight the problem and also get help for the Nigerians helping rehabilitate these kids.


Interesting video you put up.

Alexa
Nov 16, 2008, 07:15 PM
Wow!!!!!!!!!!After watching the "Escape from Jonestown" documentary on CNN yesterday and wondering how unbelievable it was that people took leave of their senses that easily,this Nigerian story comes up.I can never understand how people allow themselves to be this brain-washed,it just doesn't make sense to me at all.How do people just wake up and start believing the unbelievable?I find it interesting that no adult was/is branded a witch,does anybody else sense something sinister going on here?

I feel sad,so very sad because the Eket I know is a nice place.I always went there to hang out on their fine beach.I knew that the witchcraft thing existed(I did know of a girl brought as a househelp for my aunt who had to be let go because the pastor said the young girl was a witch,I remember thinking that was stupid)but I didn't know it was on this level.This is just beyond crazy,I'm out of emotions!

Kenn
Nov 16, 2008, 07:31 PM
People,

I notice that a few people here are asking to be part of the effort to contribute to supporting these kids. At present, we are still sharing ideas on what to do and how to proceed. Some of us have spoken to Gary Foxcroft to get an idea of the kind of challenge they face with a view to knowing where and how we can come in (and at least EMJ and Big-K have also spoken to Mr Itauma along the same lines).

I had suggested that we do not burden NVS with this issue, not only because I'm weary of overstretching NVS, but I think there are issues on which members can take initiative on their own without having to wait for Big-K, especially if they involve or are going to involve other people who aren't NVS members, as we expect in this case.

On that note WaleAkin has opened a Google group listserv, which is to serve as a working listserv for everyone from here or elsewhere who wishes to join the effort to help these kids. The way it is structured is that while those of us who are NVS members can always come here to discuss and debate, we can join others on the listserv to simply implement actions already agreed and use the listserv as a general information outlet. We can also use this thread as an information outlet, but those who are working and contributing will do so from behind the scenes and the Google group listserv opened by WaleAkin should serve that purpose in the meantime.

So, anyone who wants to be part of the effort to help these kids should please join up with the listserv. You can do so by sending an email address to WaleAkin through his PM and he would send you an invitation through that email. All you have to do is follow the instruction in the invitation and in a few minutes, you would be a member of the listserv and begin to contribute. Alternatively, you can join the group directly by following the link below to the site. If you take this option, just click to the "Join this Group" link on the right hand corner of the page and follow the instructions.

http://groups.google.com/group/thenigerianchild?hl=en


People, I need to point out now, to avoid any kind of controversy, that this is a listserv, not another website. Its aim is to complement what we are doing here, not to overturn or overtake it. Specifically, its purpose is to work out details of what we need to do and how we need to do it for the kids. It's simply a working listserv open to NVS members and others who want to contribute.


CHEERS!

Kenn
Nov 16, 2008, 07:35 PM
Big-K,


Is anyone traveling to Akwa Ibom area during the holidays and willing to visit this group? If so please PM me.


The only thing we have agreed to do in the immediate term as a matter of certainty so far is the Christmas party for the kids (the other medium and long-term actions will come later). It is important that NVS has a representative there at that party. Now, it would be great if someone from here volunteers to be there to represent us. But if no one is going to Akwa Ibom or if no one volunteers, I'm suggesting we should actually sponsor someone to go there and represent us specifically for this purpose. We must therefore begin now to tell Gary and Itauma that NVS will be having representatives at the occasion.



CHEERS!

Big-K
Nov 16, 2008, 07:38 PM
two members just pm'ed me with additional pledges towards the kids:

#1- $150 monthly
#2 - $80

Kenn, no doubt individuals can find multiple channels to help these kids directly or indirectly via NVS or googlegroups.

For those who wish to donate, Stepping Stones has a direct donation link as well: (this is the preferred method)
http://www.justgiving.com/steppingstonesnigeria

If you want to help via NVS, please use the PAYPAL link on the home page (please denote the donation as for the Akwa Ibom kids)

Wayfarer
Nov 16, 2008, 07:45 PM
Alright, you all join me now:

Pastors them be O-LE

Naija religion na BIZ-NESS

All pastor want na MO-NEY

All pastor want na OMOGE

Na im dey get BIG HOUSE

The vision im see NA LIE

Na so so lie dem DEY LIE

So where is Jesus Christ in all this? What is he waiting for? Enough children haven't been sacrificed to him?

I have this dream where I get to build nice towns in Nigeria. The first thing I will do will be to bar from them anybody who professes a belief in any of the two afflictions called Christianity and Islam. Then we will start actively cultivating a culture of ostracising people who subscribe to these rackets called religions. If you are a christian or a muslim, we won't make friends with you. We won't enter your house. Because in my book, people who adhere to these religions are accesories to child molestation, criminality, fraud and a host of perversities too numerous to mention.

So keep worshipping Jesus, my people. Here is what your lord has wrought. And please don't tell me he is not culpable because with all the people who have been sacrificed in his name over the years, he owes humanity more than apathy.

And you owe yourself a more moral occupation than justifying the indifference of a supposedly benevolent god.

I have now reached a point in my evolution that characterizes Black people who believe in Jesus or Mohammed as simply abject slaves.

udokaamah
Nov 16, 2008, 07:56 PM
Michael Vick tortured DOGS and is serving jail time. He lost two yatchs, $16,000,000 in annual income and has declared bankruptcy.

In Nigeria, CHILDREN are tortured, mutilated and killed, and the culprits (even when identified) are not even inconvinienced.

Ewuro
Nov 16, 2008, 07:56 PM
The orthodox christains churches, CMS, Catholic, Baptist, The salvation Army, and the Mehodist brought christainity to Nigeria. While converting people to christainity, they brought education, built hospitals, opened up disabled and old peoples home. In the main , we saw where the money was going. The priests never had the best cars nor wear the designer gears. They never promised miracles nor spiritual healing.

Once the administration of those churches changed, and our people became bishops, we have witnessed, a monumental decay in those churhes.

The pentecostal movements or born-again christainity are exploiting the ignorance, poverty, and general insecurity of our people to further exploit and enslave people.

They turn every word in the bible upside down to enrich themselves and their families. 'You shall receive miracles if you pay your tithes and offerings'. 'The devil is the cause of your problems', 'The causes of your problems are witches and wizards', 'The enemy is debarring your progress' are some of the catch-phrases used to seize the mind and brains of their adherents.

They got rich really quick. The pastors acquired big estates in choice areas,the best limousines and even private aeroplanes, while the tithe-giving honest workers struggle in molue buses.

Is it any wonder, that some jobless few or former armed robbers and almost anybody are quickly turning to pastorship as a means of getting rich?

Is it any wonder that a miscreant like the Bishop from Akwa-Ibom is hammering nails into a young child's head in 'Jesus name'.

The horrid video from Akwa Ibom is a sad story of how pentecostalism and born-againism is used to drive us back into the dark ages of cannibalism.

I hold the pentecostal movement responsible for this. Somebody mentioned about 'Real christains in Nigeria'. I am not convinced there are such people I could call real christains, being follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ. If there were, maybe the young 29-year old british, who formed a charity to take care of those children in persecution. He probabbaly would tell you he is not a christain or in any religion.

If there is heaven and ressurection, he is the only one qualified in Nigeria today to gain entrance into it. There is no bishop, pastor, apostle,lay-preacher, spirit-filled, Reverend overseer that is aware of such abomination and has done nothing about it that should enter the heaven kingdom. In fact, if there is any justice, they should all enter into hell fire that they have all used to scare their congregation into submission and all kinds of misdeamenour.

WaleAkin
Nov 16, 2008, 08:10 PM
That Monkey is not an ordained Bishop! You can see from the sickening documentary that he is the King in that area and its millieu, check out the Boys at his back as he is sat on that upholstered chair-An indication that he is Defacto!

Kenn1,

Thanks for ur help, the idea is just to help the Kids and add a better future to the platter

Anioma777
Nov 16, 2008, 08:23 PM
@Ewuro

I hold the pentecostal movement responsible for this. Somebody mentioned about 'Realchristains in Nigeria'. I am not convinced there are such people I could call real christains, being follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ. If there were, maybe the young 29-year old british, who formed a chaity to take care of those children in persecution. He probabbaly would tell you he is not a christain or in any religion.

If there is heaven and ressurection, he is the only one qualified in Nigeria today to gain entrance into it. There is no bishop, pastor, apostle,lay-preacher, spirit-filled, Revere

There are still many good people in Nigeria they are just not known. The real christians mentioned are those looking after the kids and doing all other types of charity work.

@Wayfarer

God has given every man and woman a free will and mind. So don't blame him for wicked acts of these evil prophets and pastors. In a very sad way you remind me of these wicked people. Their wicked ways are of their own doing, they use Jesus Christs name to "SEAL THE DEAL". Think about it this way. If you buy a BMW car and start driving recklessly and end up killing someone. Is BMW to blame? Yes the car is fast with a top speed of say 280km/h, does it mean you must drive at the maximum speed? No!!!

Most Nigerians are just wicked and self centered and can never see reason.
See how you can help these kids. Kenn1 already explained how to take part.

Exponent
Nov 16, 2008, 08:27 PM
STOP BEGGING FOR DONATIONS!!!!


GO KILL THAT BASTARD!!!

till then you get NOTHING from me. For all we KNOW this could be ANOTHER nigerian scam.

kick rocks!

Danmeka
Nov 16, 2008, 11:24 PM
Poverty and the Gullibility of its Citizens



Gullibility is an affliction that is no respecter of class, religion, gender, or race. Gullibility is a widespread product of people's failure to properly apply reason, logic, and skepticism to a claim or idea. Unfortunately, the worse a person is at doing this, the less likely they are to realize it; indeed, they can be among those who think they do the best. As a consequence, gullibility festers and encourages the development of false, irrational, and even dangerous beliefs. Watching Dispatches Special: Saving Africa's Witch Children on Channel 4 on the 12th November just shows how the level of societal degradation have turned its citizens so gullible that children that need love, education and care are now being abandoned due to the influence of brain washing psycho kinesis men and women portraying themselves as pastors, prophetess, evangelisit, deacon, deaconess and whatever. What pains me is the level of poverty, lack of infrastructures, societal deprivation, pollution and lack of basic hygiene around which can make not even children under two sick but a full grown adult.
According to Platform, In the Niger Delta, between 1976 and 1998, over 2.5 million barrels of oil have been spilt into the Delta environment; and that is only spills officially recorded by the Department of Petroleum Resources. Leaking pipelines, running through villages, farms, creeks and rivers in the Niger Delta, are a major source of pollution, sickness and economic ruin for the people of the Niger Delta. Farmland polluted by oil is rarely rehabilitated, destroying livelihoods. Fish contaminated by oil cause sickness among the people and further economic ruin as fish stocks decline.
But unfortunately the so-called Pastors are making a killing by extorting money from gullible people (The Gospel is free-I am sure some would disagree) saying they can cast such spell from these children. I’ve been thinking about a great impostor—one so clever that he deceived even the devil himself. This master of illusion has turned angels into demons, kings into animals, pastors into predators, and sheep into wolves. While the elusive deceiver is not a person, it overcomes that problem by borrowing personality from its victims. With no shame, it clothes itself in the thoughts, emotions, and wills of those whose trust it betrays. Such people come to mind e.g. Helen Ukapbio, very arrogant, argumentative and develop an exaggerated opinion of her own importance. This deceiver of deceivers is pride. They have hats for every occasion and masks for every emotion. They have different voice for every decision.
Jesus was kind to people that other religious leaders avoided, and never deceived people. He ate and drank with people that other religious leaders wouldn’t be caught dead with. He touched lepers, talked respectfully with women, and loved noisy children.
This documentary shows how the Gospel mixed with inspiring idealism, rugged cultural beliefs in addition to the polluted environment and economic stagnation: what it means to be faithful to the highest principles while offering mercy and hope to the most broken people has no place in such society. Parents who are suppose to show love, care, and educate their children are doing the opposite. Our so-called Churches have become a culture of confusionism where leaders use spiritual language that implies they have a private line to God. The result is that the group learns to hear the teaching or prayerful decisions of leadership as if they were listening to God. Such confusion leads to trouble. When spiritual overseers are not held accountable to fair process and well-defined checks and balances, they can impose their will in ways that go beyond their rightful sphere of control, leaders can require submission in matters that are more personal than public, more cultural than biblical. In the noise and commotion of such abuse, phrases like “touch not the Lord’s anointed” or “obey them that have the rule over you” are used, or according to Helen Ukapbio “I have over 150 churches”, not to promote a healthy fear of the Lord but rather an unhealthy fear of men.and women.
When Jesus pressed the logic of moral idealism, He did so in order to lovingly humble self-righteous people (Matthew 5:20-48).When He offered mercy instead of morality, He did so to show that He had come not to condemn but to rescue (John 3:17; 12:47). Jesus’ example of leadership is a corrective to such abuse of authority. In His kingdom, leaders think and act like servants. They hear the questions and cries of those who are hurting. They give others the consideration they want for themselves. In Jesus’ kingdom, elders and deacons do not correct someone else without first working on their own faults (Luke 6:39,41-42). They remember the Lord’s words: “A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher” (Luke 6:40). Even when confronting false teachers, representatives of Christ are not to be authoritarian in style, but “gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition” (2 Timothy 2:24-25).
The Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) needs to play an enlightenment role here, rather than close an eye or sweep the issue under the carpet, they need to begin to educate the people about practices. Not even a face saving measure will eradicate the practice but effective education and awareness if that means exposing such people. Rather than fall to deep-seated belief in supernatural forces and allow evangelical churches are capitalizing on this superstitious element in African thought and culture to peddle and propagate their paranormal service, read the bible for yourselves.
A big kudos to the Governor of Akwa Ibom for his effort but more could be done. These people need science, not superstition; critical thinking, not dogma; open mindedness, not blind faith; reason, not revelation; and industries jobs and technological advancement, not the Holy Spirit and miracles. Africa needs scepticism, not Pentecostalism. The children need care, not fear, hope not abuse, love not hate, food not hunger, home and not destitution and finally education for a better future.
As for Gary Foxcroft and Sam Itauma, your efforts, doggness to show the world about the evangelical religious fervour combined with a belief in sorcery and black magic is commendable. Everyone of us have a role to play to eradicate this poison destroying these kids, as Gary said “Any Christian would look at the situation that is going on here and just be absolutely outraged that they were using the teachings of Jesus Christ to exploit and abuse innocent children." This has to stop.

Danmeka

To watch this documentary log on to: http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/dispatches/saving+africas+witch+children/2780062


You can contact the author on danmeka@inbox.com

THE VOICE
Nov 17, 2008, 12:09 AM
The perpetrators of this dastardly act should be arressted right away and prosecuted, I could not even finish watching the video clips, it was so disturbing and offensive.

I hope something is done fast, these heartless people should not go scot-free.

WaleAkin
Nov 17, 2008, 07:01 AM
Good Morning Guys,

As we prepare to leave our residences for work this morning, pick up ur phones, call your contacts and speak with them on this issue, email your buddies and give them the link to this gruesome video. Let the world know what is happening in Esit Eket, Akwa Ibom State.

I must confess that i breached my "responsible Fatherly boundary" by showing this video to my Sons last night at about 7:30PM, the eldest woke up this morning, walked into our room and gave me a £10 note with this words "Daaad, give this money to your group", he turned back and i had to quickly cover my face with the duvet to shed some hot tears! I held on to that £10 note as if i was seeing such denomination for the very first time and litle Mary's picture flooded my memories

My eldest Son was born in 2001, i'd say the same age bracket with Mary(The elder Sister of baby Utibe-Abasi) seen in the video and its been over 1 hr since he gave me the money, i cant help but think of how we can give those Kids a better future!

M. Akosa
Nov 17, 2008, 12:14 PM
I used to think I was a very brave person until I watched this. I don't know what to say. One of those moments that I cried, but not having any answers for the problem, just hopelessness.

Adults in Nigeria are not spared from cruelty and inhumanity, yet children like those on this video are by far worse off than adults. What can a little child ever do wrong???

21st Century Nigeria. A very troubled nation indeed.

UDEMEAKPAN
Nov 17, 2008, 12:31 PM
STOP BEGGING FOR DONATIONS!!!!


GO KILL THAT BASTARD!!!

till then you get NOTHING from me. For all we KNOW this could be ANOTHER nigerian scam.

kick rocks!

Hello,
I do not find your response in any way helpful because it plants a seed of doubt in the minds of those who wish to help these beautiful children. I understand your reservation but I believe that this knee-jerk response, insinuating '419' regarding this call to action is just part of the unfortunate and rabid cynicism that pervades our collective consiousness.
Do what you have to to help those kids, they did not ask to be born. If you need more pictures, more will be uploaded on face book in the next week of so. If you need confirmation, I suppose you can make a call to stepping stones, or visit Nigeria discreetly yourself. Most importantly, contact the child riights and Rehabilitation network and the Stepping Stones website to help. The house that is being used to house those kids is owned by an old 'Great Ife' colleague of mine who lives in Washington DC. I am also an author in the Village square, so you can send me a personal message if you require any more information (I do not think there is any information that you cannot find on the CRARN/stepping stones website). Some members of this forum are rightly stepping up to the stage to help in their own way, you can join up with them.
If we believe that this cancer festers in Akwa-Ibom state alone, then, either we're smoking something or wallowing in denial.
Inside all of us born and bred in Nigeria is some false memory or paranoia of someone or some occasion where whichcraft, juju or some diabolical interpretation has been recruited to explain a perfectly normal occurence. A granny dies at 104 years. She must have died because her daughter 'chop am for winch'! A raving lunatic driver kills himself driving on the wrong side of Ikorodu road; 'Na him sister wey be winch kill am'! Haba, why do we choose to explain away incompetence with mediocrity? Our former bufoon of a president and his court jesters, attempted to change the constitution of Federal Republic of Nigeria to support his third-term ambition, and he uses God as an alabi.
Have you heard any meaningful sounds comming out of the Nigerian media about this sordid affair? Has there been any element of revulsion from our leaders?
Ask yourself, if you had not left the shores of Nigeria, would you have shown the same measure of revulsion as has been voiced by nigerians in diaspora? Do most of us not recall a 'house-boy' or 'house-girl' in our circle of acqaintance? A pre-pubescent child condemned to spend his or her childhood in servitude. Abused and tortured daily. Humiliated and starved. Totally at the mercy of the slave master or mistress? Yes! yes! Does this ring any bell for you?

It is a sad time for us all, when images like this paint a gloomy picture of my country. So shocking, so sad. The images of the little ebony beauty, Mary haunts me, seemingly asking me; 'Why have you allowed this to happen to me?'
These revelations are just a chip of the iceberg of our cultural miasma infested by extreme religion (Cancer of 'born-again' phenomena and Sharia) and incubated in extreme poverty. If we believe this is happening only in Akwa-Ibom State, think again. Think again!

Oluwato
Nov 17, 2008, 01:35 PM
For those who wish to donate, Stepping Stones has a direct donation link as well: (this is the preferred method)
http://www.justgiving.com/steppingstonesnigeria

If you want to help via NVS, please use the PAYPAL link on the home page (please denote the donation as for the Akwa Ibom kids)

Just some clarification, is stepping stones the same as CRARN or just another group for the same cause? (Sorry if this has been answered earlier, I could not read all the comments). Thanks!

Akpu-Nku
Nov 17, 2008, 03:28 PM
How that Akpabio woman can justify these muderous acts she championed by her selfish cock-and-bull film about 'witch' children or 'winch' by their twisted pronouncation devouring helpless adults at nights and practically when it suits them is a howling outrage. At one point she compares it to JK Rowlings Harry Porter and accussed the white reporter of racism. What vile nonsense!

I very nearly pissed down my night pants on that 12 Wednesday 2008 broadcast on channel 4, while watching this potly jackass wielding a machete on camera threatening to kill a spinedly 10 year old girl or there about if she stayed back in the miserable village. The poor little dear was wailing helplessly tagging along side her mother who cannot help or protect her from that brute and the whole muderous villagers who as it were milled around and enjoyed the attention with such disgusting pleasure, it made me puke. Thank God I have no gun because I would have shot at my television just to get that bastard off the screen in the most horrible way possible.

How can these evil happen in a country we call our own in this day and age? The fact that the police and the government knew about this and allow these unspeakable evil to occur everyday is not only evil but deliberate evil. Perhaps, like everything else in that dreadful country, politics has quickly overshadowed it because it is not happening in their domain or political zones and also tens of miles away from them and into the heartland of jumbles of minorities. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Chikena!!! And yet they would have us be patriotic to a one Nigeria that dispises it's people.

Let their be justice for these traumaticed little angels and let it be now. If I were in Akwa Ibom, I would form a militant vigilante group and burn down all the nuisance evil contraptions they call churches, 110 children killer bastard and everything he owned and give them all the Bakassi Boys teatment. And I will not be making any apologies concerning that at all, which means that I will be able to sleep well at night, at the end of the day.

chaos.com
Nov 17, 2008, 03:35 PM
helen ukpabio.-- No white man can come and tell me what to do in my own country?

The country that the white man formed?
The country that you have claimed other nigerians termed witches cannot live in with their own human rights

She even seems to be mistaking symptoms of malaria with witchcraft.

Someone screams and is hot in the night and shivers, is witchcraft.
In that case i am a witch too because when i was a baby with malaria, that is all i did.

pastor sleeping in the same bedroom with a 5yr old.

I just vomited after watching it. Look at lovely mary's eyes ust begging to be acepted and taken care off.

Shame that it is the white man that many people claim causes all africans problems, that are setting up the refuge to help them.

if this is not discrimination and nepotism, what is?

My son is 5 yrs old and when i look at him , i thank GOD that my parents took care of me and gave me the gift of a proper christain religion, education and a chance in life.

No one can tell me anything now i do not believe in , without getting challenged not even a so called prophet of akwa ibom

Exponent
Nov 17, 2008, 03:38 PM
Hello,
I do not find your response in any way helpful because it plants a seed of doubt in the minds of those who wish to help these beautiful children. I understand your reservation but I believe that this knee-jerk response, insinuating '419' regarding this call to action is just part of the unfortunate and rabid cynicism that pervades our collective consiousness.
Do what you have to to help those kids, they did not ask to be born. If you need more pictures, more will be uploaded on face book in the next week of so. If you need confirmation, I suppose you can make a call to stepping stones, or visit Nigeria discreetly yourself. Most importantly, contact the child riights and Rehabilitation network and the Stepping Stones website to help. The house that is being used to house those kids is owned by an old 'Great Ife' colleague of mine who lives in Washington DC. I am also an author in the Village square, so you can send me a personal message if you require any more information (I do not think there is any information that you cannot find on the CRARN/stepping stones website). Some members of this forum are rightly stepping up to the stage to help in their own way, you can join up with them.
If we believe that this cancer festers in Akwa-Ibom state alone, then, either we're smoking something or wallowing in denial.
Inside all of us born and bred in Nigeria is some false memory or paranoia of someone or some occasion where whichcraft, juju or some diabolical interpretation has been recruited to explain a perfectly normal occurence. A granny dies at 104 years. She must have died because her daughter 'chop am for winch'! A raving lunatic driver kills himself driving on the wrong side of Ikorodu road; 'Na him sister wey be winch kill am'! Haba, why do we choose to explain away incompetence with mediocrity? Our former bufoon of a president and his court jesters, attempted to change the constitution of Federal Republic of Nigeria to support his third-term ambition, and he uses God as an alabi.
Have you heard any meaningful sounds comming out of the Nigerian media about this sordid affair? Has there been any element of revulsion from our leaders?
Ask yourself, if you had not left the shores of Nigeria, would you have shown the same measure of revulsion as has been voiced by nigerians in diaspora? Do most of us not recall a 'house-boy' or 'house-girl' in our circle of acqaintance? A pre-pubescent child condemned to spend his or her childhood in servitude. Abused and tortured daily. Humiliated and starved. Totally at the mercy of the slave master or mistress? Yes! yes! Does this ring any bell for you?

It is a sad time for us all, when images like this paint a gloomy picture of my country. So shocking, so sad. The images of the little ebony beauty, Mary haunts me, seemingly asking me; 'Why have you allowed this to happen to me?'
These revelations are just a chip of the iceberg of our cultural miasma infested by extreme religion (Cancer of 'born-again' phenomena and Sharia) and incubated in extreme poverty. If we believe this is happening only in Akwa-Ibom State, think again. Think again!

LIKE I SAID!!!!!

THE ONLY MONEY ANYONE SHOULD DEPART WITH SHOULD BE "VETTED" WITH RELIABLE - UNITED STATES & U.N. SOURCES........

OTHERWISE - THE GIVER WILL BE SWINDLED AND THE KIDS WILL CONTINUE TO STARVE & DIE - WHILE THE SWINDLER GETS RICH!



I'd rather send BLACKWATER in there and MASSACRE THE BASTARDS!!!

chaos.com
Nov 17, 2008, 03:43 PM
Organise those guys from executive outcomes .
within a week all the prophets would be dead.
Is there always a big tray of cash present during these services

renike
Nov 17, 2008, 04:24 PM
summary----dia is madness in the land! :sad:

lateesha
Nov 17, 2008, 04:31 PM
I don't have the 'balls' to watch the film posted.The descriptions alone give me a clear picture.
Christ in no way advocated this sort of treatment or exemplified it in any form so this has nothing to do with Christianity.
Like someone earlier said,this is not an akwa Ibom problem.It is all of our problem.There are documented cases of similar things in Bini area on you tube.Someone gave an instance in Yoruba land.
Ogbanje and abiku cases abound in Igbo and Yorubaland and Rivers state
There are ritualists in all of Nigeria amongst people of all and no religion.
The finger pointing ought to stop.
The audience that watched the documentary came off seeing an injustice to Nigerian kids by Nigerians.
This is the consequence of ignorance,poverty,illiteracy and desperation.
Sadly the worst culprits are the most feeble and helpless in soceity.

May God punish all these profitesses who parade themselves as prophetesses and women of God.
They are non of his,

ComradeX
Nov 17, 2008, 04:33 PM
If the pledges of support and expressions of outrage that I have read thus far are to be considered anything more than another knee-jerk reaction to a resurgent problem, then I am afraid we need to concern ourselves with the wider issue of children’s rights as well as the popular concept of childhood in present day Nigeria.

Should Helen Ukpabio be held singularly responsible for the heinous crimes children unravelled in this channel 4 Documentary?
Is the Pentecostal persuasion of Christianity to blame?
Could Akwa Ibom easily have been substituted with just about any of state in Nigeria, with the viewer nevertheless arriving at similar conclusions?
These are far reaching questions that, I suspect, do not make for comfortable reading.

In a Nation where the provision of primary school education still comes at too high a cost for a sizeable proportion of the population, is it any wonder that the exploitation of children in carried over into what is, undoubtedly, one of the most lucrative sectors of its economy – organised religion!

Can anyone of us vouch that the ‘Child Rights Act’ now signed into law in Akwa Ibom promotes the notion of children as autonomous holders of rights in the same way as adults?
If these rights were not framed with the formal notion of justice in mind, but, rather, with a view to clarifying some ambiguities resulting from a misplaced notion of parenthood, then I fear that for every demonic Helen Ukpabio that makes the headlines we are likely to find that are a thousand others waiting in the wings

CIkpatt
Nov 17, 2008, 06:09 PM
Can anyone of us vouch that the ‘Child Rights Act’ now signed into law in Akwa Ibom promotes the notion of children as autonomous holders of rights in the same way as adults? ... ComradeX

Folks:

The Akwa Ibom State Government is very deeply concerned just as various Nigerians have expressed genuine concern about the abused children.

I strongly believe the State Government is at work to properly and adequately handle this problem; Governor Akpabio has been seen to personally champion the Child Rights, especially since recently signing the Act into law. So, we should, henceforth, expect to see some sharp teeth in the proper enforcement of the Child Rights Act in Akwa Ibom State.

It is comforting and humbling to see the outpouring of emotions and the general understanding that this is not particularly an Akwa Ibom problem. You guys who have been touched enough to offer help for child abuse victims in Akwa Ibom are real angels.

Indeed, this is another opportunity for advocates to ensure sweeping reforms through well-coordinated national education campaigns against the abuse of children, and for increased enforcement of national Child Rights laws.

While we see charlatans as particularly responsible for abuse cases in the documentary, let us not be so quick to bash the Christian religion.

Yes, some extreme so-called pentecostals and other sub-groups have been driven into promoting the abuses through lack of understanding of the doctrine of Christ and by greed. But, so have paganism and other traditional religions commonly practiced in all parts of the country.

Witchcraft is different from divination; the later is spiritual. But, according to the Bible (Gal. 5:19-21), witchraft is strictly a work of the flesh just as homosexuality, lasciviousness, fornication, etc are works of the flesh. It is not a spiritual (for those who understand what the spirit is made of). Therefore, any charlatan who preaches exorcism as way of ridding a strictly ultra deviant work of the flesh is just who he or she is... a charlatan.

Witchraft not only predates any religion (including Christianity) or traditions of men, it is intrinsic of the fallen nature of man... and comes in various forms and degrees (such as in practices of magic, stubborness or manipulation... yes, stubborness and simple manipulations for selfish and other reasons).

If Christian and other folks are properly educated about this issue, fear and paranoia associated with witchcraft will be slowly eliminated; children and adults will be less exploited.

I hope the Channel 4 documentary will serve to warn adult Nigerians patronizing hopeless pastors whose only stock in trade and method of sustaining large congregations are to preach and falsely prophesy witchcraft to gullible ones sitting in pews, even in the US and Europe.

There is no difference between so-called Bishop Ulup-Aya who wrongly prophesies and abuses children and those pastors who carelessly and falsely prophesy witchcraft to break marriages and families.

They are not only in Nigeria, but have significantly mushroomed all over the USA and Europe. What you see Helen Ukpabio doing in Calabar is now replicated by many in the USA and Europe... and many of you expressing disgust about the Channel 4 documentary patronize them. They may not physically abuse your children because the law will easily take care of them, but they financially or psychologically abuse your families by exploiting your fears/paranoia.

If folks know generally about what constitutes Child/Human Rights abuses, charlatans and spiritualists will find it so difficult to make them engage in those practices.

chaos.com
Nov 17, 2008, 06:11 PM
Smells like David koresh in WACO

VOR
Nov 17, 2008, 06:33 PM
watching this potly jackass wielding a machete on camera threatening to kill a spinedly 10 year old girl or there about if she stayed back in the miserable village. The poor little dear was wailing helplessly tagging along side her mother who cannot help or protect her from that brute and the whole muderous villagers who as it were milled around and enjoyed the attention with such disgusting pleasure, it made me puke.


This little girl is doing fine, she was at the centre when Kenn called and he spoke with her. She wants to be a lawyer!! and by God, she shall be an astounding one!!



Shame that it is the white man that many people claim causes all africans problems, that are setting up the refuge to help them.

No Chaos, Sam set up the refuge before Gary, the whiteman joined him to help the children

Auspicious
Nov 17, 2008, 06:34 PM
Michael Vick tortured DOGS and is serving jail time. He lost two yatchs, $16,000,000 in annual income and has declared bankruptcy.

In Nigeria, CHILDREN are tortured, mutilated and killed, and the culprits (even when identified) are not even inconvinienced.

In TIME magazine's weekly 'Table of Predictables',

This will simply rank as "Shockingly Predictable".

Auspy.

virtue
Nov 17, 2008, 06:40 PM
Nigeria needs prayer. I have not been able to watch the program for more than 2 minutes as the sight is more than a HORROR film to me. My heart races, my soul bleeds . This is not Jesus Christ in action. Jesus loves kids and would not allow any harm to come to kids. Jesus would not deliver the oppress in this manner. Jesus would not collect 400,000 to deliver a soul. Oh my God, this is barbaric.Imagine the so called bishop collecting such huge amount from these ppl who can hardly afford three square meal. He has no milk of humanity flowing in him.
Which way Nigeria?

chaos.com
Nov 17, 2008, 06:48 PM
No Chaos, Sam set up the refuge before Gary, the whiteman joined him to help the children

Thanks
My mistake

chaos.com
Nov 17, 2008, 06:51 PM
Nigeria needs prayer. I have not been able to watch the program for more than 2 minutes as the sight is more than a HORROR film to me. My heart races, my soul bleeds . This is not Jesus Christ in action. Jesus loves kids and would not allow any harm to come to kids. Jesus would not deliver the oppress in this manner. Jesus would not collect 400,000 to deliver a soul. Oh my God, this is barbaric.Imagine the so called bishop collecting such huge amount from these ppl who can hardly afford three square meal. He has no milk of humanity flowing in him.
Which way Nigeria?


It is certainly not what jesus preached.
This is fundamentalism at work.
I lose my job, na winch
I had a car accident as i no get money to buy better tyre, Na winch
I am flying in an aeroplane with bad safety record and no fuel-- God go save me. if anything happen ,Na winch.

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord you GOD

godfather
Nov 17, 2008, 07:04 PM
I still suggest that evil evangelist Ukpabio and her ilk should be tried and summarily put in a gas chamber.:twisted:

Enough of this diplomacy and kids glove tactics. If anybody is responsible for the death of 110 innocent angels then we can do without such anti-Christ than have the wrath of God on Nigeria.

chaos.com
Nov 17, 2008, 07:14 PM
Just been looking at liberty films website.
It is just a cash spinning institution.
all about preaching about devils and witchcraft.
Nohing to do with spreading the good works of the gospel.
if i go to church, i want to hear how God is making my life better through prayer and how with prayer i can overcome my difficulties.
I do not want to hear that those problems are caused by my 5 yr old son or a winch somewhere.

tengallons
Nov 17, 2008, 07:16 PM
It is certainly not what jesus preached.
This is fundamentalism at work.
I lose my job, na winch
I had a car accident as i no get money to buy better tyre, Na winch
I am flying in an aeroplane with bad safety record and no fuel-- God go save me. if anything happen ,Na winch.

Thou shalt not tempt the Lord you GOD

It is also a classic case of Religion Inc. At N400,000.00 a pop for "exorcism", this is a quick route to money, power, and respect in the circles that these charlatans move in . Until those children are free, none of us is really free.

Uncle Sam
Nov 17, 2008, 10:15 PM
Do you live in the West?

Is it possible to adopt one of the kids?

Can you?

You may have saved a village !

VOR
Nov 17, 2008, 10:52 PM
Do you live in the West?

Is it possible to adopt one of the kids?

Can you?

You may have saved a village !

Uncle Sam

This is one area the working group will be looking at. We will keep villagers posted.

Danmeka
Nov 17, 2008, 11:32 PM
Just read that during her so -called conference in August 2008 she supported this with what the Bible says in the Book of Job, Chapter 41 verses 24 and 25 Ukpabio told the people that the witches practise their craft on their beds (meaning while asleep at night), coveting other peoples' fields and properties and taking them violently.

See how so merchants of deception,greed,penterascalism abusing the works of our Lord Jesus Christ turn the words of God upside down and preaching what the bible did not say.

Here is a commentary by Ray C Stedman:

All through this book Job has been crying out of his pain, his bewilderment, and his tortured heart for an interview with God, asking God to explain what is happening to him, hoping that he could come before him and ask him some questions about what is going on. Suddenly, God speaks to Job out of the whirlwind and grants him his desire. As Job viewed the situation, God in his judgment was unfair with him. He was a righteous man, and God was treating him as though he were unrighteous. Surely there is no more common complaint or experience in the world today than that very attitude. We feel we are being unjustly treated in what our lot in life is, that what is being handed to us is not fair. This is why this book of Job is so eternally relevant to us because it deals with the common problems that all of us face at one time or another. Now Job is going to be taught by God himself what the true situation is, and there is surely no tougher lesson to learn in life. There is nothing more difficult for us than to see where we have been wrong when we were sure we were dead right.

Life own pride and desire. Life has a way of teaching us that, and that is what God is teaching Job now, helping him to see that his righteousness was an external matter only, and internally there was a deep and serious problem. This is the toughest lesson to learn.

Let focus on Job 41:18-25 RSV

You can see why many have thought this was the crocodile because of the description of the overlapping shields on his back and sides. But the next section goes far beyond the crocodile. It is obviously a picture of a deeply-entrenched, well-defended system that cannot be overthrown. Here we read of his awesome fierceness and frightening power, Verse 18:

"His sneezings flash forth light,
and his eyes are like the eyelids of the dawn.
Out of his mouth go flaming torches;
sparks of fire leap forth.
Out of his nostrils comes forth smoke,
as from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
His breath kindles coals,
and a flame comes forth from his mouth.
In his neck abides strength,
and terror dances before him.
The folds of his flesh cleave together,
firmly cast upon him and immovable.
His heart is hard as a stone,
hard as the nether millstone.
When he raises himself up the mighty are afraid;
at the crashing they are beside themselves." (Job 41:18-25 RSV)

What a picture of incredible strength and power -- the great dragon breathing out flame from his nostrils and wiping out everything that comes against him!
This is God's challenge now to Job: "Can you look and sound like God? Can you clothe yourself with majesty and dignity so that all the created universe is immediately aware that you are a being capable of handling them and all their problems? Can you appear like God, look like God, and especially, can you handle the problem of the proud?" Now God puts his finger on what has been the problem running all through the book of Job; the problem that is in Job's heart, though he does not know it. "Can you handle the proud? Can you find a way to abase these proud, strutting creatures who think they have all that they need to handle life, and bring them low?"

We know how in our own day what a difficult problem this is. Here in our country we have an organization that everyone calls the "Mafia," made up of proud men who think they have power to run life to please themselves. They are criminals, basically. They live for their own purposes and advance their own interests. They are parasites on the structure of society. They extract hundreds of thousands of naira from the Federation Accounts. All the power of government and of our judicial system is unable to lay hold of these men and arrest them in their proud, selfish course and stop this kind of pride. We cannot do it. They remain untouched among us for the most part, and they still continue, decade after decade. It is not easy to run the earth. It is not easy to bring justice. God says, "Can you do that, Job? Can you handle proud men and abase them and bring them low and even, if necessary, consign them to the world below? (i.e., to Hades, to hell). Can you do that? If you can, Job, then I will be willing to grant that you are able to handle your own problem and give yourself victory, as you claim you can."

Now your mind, I am sure, has already run ahead to the great section of the book of Revelation where in Chapter 13 you have two beasts emerging that dominate the scene in the last days. One is a beast that comes up out of the sea, and that beast reigns over the waters which, we are told in Revelation, represent the multitudes of peoples of the earth. The other beast is a beast that comes up on the land. Behind both of these beasts is still a third incredible animal called the great dragon (of Chapter 12). There we are told plainly that that dragon is Satan, and he gives his power and authority to the beasts. Now tracing this symbolism through, and applying it here in the book of Job, I believe that it is warranted that we should say that these beasts represent a satanic power made visible in terms of our earthly existence.

The first of these beasts, Behemoth, represents the satanic twist that we all labor with and struggle against in our own lives which the Bible calls the flesh, the fallen nature within us, our humanity, with its continual desire to assert itself and live for itself. The second beast represents the world in all its vast influence upon every one of us, pressuring us to conform, to reflect the values and attitudes of those around us, dominating all our thinking and all our life in every possible way(Helen Ukpabio et al). Behind them both is the devil, with his malevolent, cunning wisdom and power, incredible in his might and his control of human events.

I hope this help,if you need more information you can read The Nature of God by Ray Steadman, but please also READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF

Austin
Nov 18, 2008, 01:12 AM
. If I were in Akwa Ibom, I would form a militant vigilante group and burn down all the nuisance evil contraptions they call churches, 110 children killer bastard and everything he owned and give them all the Bakassi Boys teatment. And I will not be making any apologies concerning that at all, which means that I will be able to sleep well at night, at the end of the day.

Honey,
You can just take a trip down there for a week or two. The economic meltdown is not yet that bad or is it? And I am counting on your still having the green kpali - not so? So, hurry go there my dear and effect justice. Oya, carry go.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
---------------------------------------------------------------------

This one too shall pass... and the next story will soon emerge.
I am still trying to understand why I am neither shocked nor outraged.
Of course, the film was disturbing, but it was a well made film, with a little above average effort at objectivity. But at the same time well tailored perfectly to its targeted audience. The anchor is even either a Nigerian, spouse to a Nigerian, or a Nigerian born in the diaspora. But at least she has a Nigerian surname.

My hero is definitely the guy, Sam Itauma, the very first thing that struck me was his brilliance. That was my first impression, and he never disappointed. Anytime he oppened his mouth, he gladdened my heart. It also gladdens my hear to know that there are Nigerians at home, tackling a typical Nigerian problem, with limited resources, and without any commercial motive. The man was even so secure that he was willing to co-opt a foreigner into the work. And by so doing making it go global, and out of the reach of those who might want to try funny things with him. He definitely deserves an award. It is just a little pity that the docu. was not about him and his beloved Akwa Ibom - but that is ok and should be.

The docu. was of course about African children witches, and a 29 year old Briton called Gary - who was risking his life as a westerner - in such a dangerous place as Akwa Ibom - where by the way, he was through out well received. But that is a minor detail, for without those sensation, how would the docu. have attracted the kind of attention it was seeking
Gary too definitely deserves my praise. Whatever be the case, he has done and is still doing something good. Thats the bottom line. Nigerians, we've got work to do, because when the embarrassment comes calling, your ivy league schools, six-figure jobs, American or European passports and so on cannot help. The only thing that will help, is taking good care of what is yours - by heritage.

Thanks and bye for now.

enna inot
Nov 18, 2008, 02:51 PM
I have just finished seeing the video and words fail me.........na wa oh!
Nigeria is corrupt,that we all know but this!!!!!! Haba,see that asinine and deranged buffon saying he is exorcising.Let us assume that these kids are really 'witches',who gave the pastor the authority and powers to torture and kill these kids??While on earth,Jesus Christ cured a demon-possessed man,he did not lynch him to get the demons out.i wonder what brand of fanaticism this man practises that gives him the guts to bare his dracula teeth before the camera and say 'he has killed 110 children'.Please, what proof does Akwa Ibom state Government and its Ministry of Youths need to prosecute this man for murder of 110 innocent young souls?
Fellow villagers how do we facilitate the prosecuting of this B*stard for murder? while i will give my widow's mite to support these kids,ithis ***** and Helen Ukpabio (who has clearly waxed stronger in her witchcraft )should be prosecuted.haba!Pls lawyers in the house lets do something.
Is it not very sad that some of us are busy attributing this evil to Nigeria alone.Man's inhumanity to man is in all lands under the sun.while it is true that our Judiciary and law enforcement processes are very flawed,do evil things happen in Nigeria alone?Some people are concerned with how oyibo people will now see us after this.even justifying that they treat us badly bcos of things like these.:rolleyes:Utter smelling rubbish!!!!! In the USA with all the laws they have,dont serial killers exist? i mean someone wakes up one morning and decides to go after all 'blonde and blue-eyed girls,do people say all Americans are so warped? Is it not people in western society that pick up a gun and head into any school or public place and shoot anyone in sight?Watch Crime & Investigation on Discovery channel and you will see how people are hacked,sawed,shot etc etc in all gory manners by fellow humans oh ,sometimes even family members! Na only Nigeria craze people wey wear cloth dey? i mean c'mon people, someone in one of the posts above said smthng like there is no good person in Nigeria!! HA!e don reach like that? make some of us sofry dey throway stone for inside market oh! There are religious fanatics everywhere and in all religions.Some humans(regardless of their race or ethnic group.Does Adolf Hitler ring a bell?) have a capacity for evil that leaves normal humans speechless.
Please Let us seek ways we can strenghten our law-enforcement agencies and Judiciary system.

Akpu-Nku
Nov 18, 2008, 05:26 PM
Honey,
You can just take a trip down there for a week or two. The economic meltdown is not yet that bad or is it? And I am counting on your still having the green kpali - not so? So, hurry go there my dear and effect justice. Oya, carry go.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
---------------------------------------------------------------------


Taking a trip to the damn place is not the issue, sunshine, and that green kpali you mentioned could well be red and I would readily ram it up your arsse to prove a point to you as you please. Watch it now. You get met me.:mad:

Austin
Nov 18, 2008, 05:40 PM
Taking a trip to the damn place is not the issue, sunshine, and that green kpali you mentioned could well be red and I would readily ram it up your arsse to prove a point to you as you please. Watch it now. You get met me.:mad:

But you won't be the first ever to get it. Neither will you be the last. Yeye man. And just curious, how will you manage to ram it up my, what'd you call it? Through the internet, or through "African winchcraft?":D:lol:

Kenn
Nov 19, 2008, 03:13 AM
two members just pm'ed me with additional pledges towards the kids:

#1- $150 monthly
#2 - $80

Kenn, no doubt individuals can find multiple channels to help these kids directly or indirectly via NVS or googlegroups.

For those who wish to donate, Stepping Stones has a direct donation link as well: (this is the preferred method)
http://www.justgiving.com/steppingstonesnigeria

If you want to help via NVS, please use the PAYPAL link on the home page (please denote the donation as for the Akwa Ibom kids)



Big-K and All,

Thank you for your note above, but please allow me to clarify one or two things. I think we need to understand what it is we are aiming to achieve here, so as to maximize our efforts for the benefit of the children. True, the link you provided above is for direct monetary donations to Stepping Stones, but, clearly, money is not the only donation people can make. Besides, there is no "preferred method" of donation of money and material, because there is room for inventiveness and ingenuity.

I do not think anyone is in doubt as to what to do if it's just a question of individual donations. But there is more at stake and there is more to be done. I believe that true to the activist nature of some of us who are truly interested in this matter, we are bound to look beyond mere monetary donations. Don't get me wrong, some of us are already donating money and some of us will still donate and continue to donate money; but the big picture is to ensure that this evil is stopped. It did not develop in one day and it won't take one day or one donation to stop it. Some of us are compelled to look at the larger picture.

And what is the larger picture? This has been made clear by the challenges being faced by the children and their handlers. I have stated above what Gary Foxcroft enumerated as these challenges and I have equally spoken to Sam Ikpe-Utauma who confirmed same. It is obvious that if we intend to make a real difference to these children's lives or to the situation, we need to organize formally to help address these challenges. Yes, it is okay and indeed welcome to donate through NVS via the PAYPAL facility or donate through the link provided by Stepping Stones; but after then, what next? Are we going to then leave Gary Foxcroft, Sam Ikpe-Utauma and the other helpers to just carry on like that? Is money the only thing needed by these kids?

It is precisely because some of us are aware that money and more are needed that we set up the Google ‘The Nigerian Child' group'. It is precisely to get together persons committed to dealing with the issues raised by this affair holistically. We know we need to begin immediately to pressure political power and institutions to guarantee the children's safety and survival, not only by passing the relevant laws, but by ensuring that these laws are implemented to the letter. We know that we need to constitute ourselves into some kind of watchdog, constantly overseeing developments where these children are concerned. Before the Channel 4 programme, they were hidden from the world, but now we know and we simply cannot go back to sleep until these children are guaranteed the right of free citizens – free from the odious effect of superstition, free from victimization, stigmatization, persecution and the spectre of imminent and painful death!

We know we have to confront the religious establishment and its rouge fringes that feed fat on this infamy. We know we have to do this because they are the source of the children's misery. We cannot go to church now every Sunday or to mosque every Friday just merely praying that God takes care of the children. If we do just that we will be no better than the pretentious Pharisees who think washing the outside of the cup is good enough! We will have to pitch our beliefs, humanity and reason against the religious forces of darkness that encourages such wanton child abuse in the name of deliverance or witch-hunting.

We will have to create the awareness amongst our countrymen and women. The fact that such evil goes on unreported in our press is one huge scandal of this situation! Why did it take a UK-based news organization to bring this to the attention of the world? Why did it take a 29-year old British citizen to internationalize the children's plight despite the fact that Mr Sam Ikpe-Utauma has been courageously picking up these kids housing, feeding, educating and protecting them far before now? We will need to pick up the gauntlet immediately! Those of us who can write should shout it to the heavens! We must denounce this in all media available to each and every one of us! We must make a public case against the prophets and prophetesses of darkness, the child-killers and destroyers of our future walking around unquestioned and unmolested in our nation! We must bring the strength of the word and the power of our collective voice to bear on the situation!

Donations? Of course, we must donate! When I was speaking to Sam the first time, he was out there in the bush, picking firewood to cook for the kids. While I was talking to him, another child was brought in to join the 152 already there! Who knows how many more have since joined? It's obvious that the publicity given this affair will naturally lead to upsurge in the number of persons coming there to seek refuge, Sam and Gary are not going to be able to cope with the basics, talk less of other things like the kids' education, health and mental development, considering the state they usually are when they arrive and the special care they need to grow into useful members of society.

We set up the Google group, not in opposition to what is going on at NVS, but to complement it. The way the discussion is going here has justified that decision, because talk is cheap! We set it up as a working listserv or email group only open to those ready to fold their sleeves and do the heavy lifting! We set it up for those who are in this for the long term, because that is precisely the kind of support these kids need. We set it up as a structure of an organization to deal with the issue in a directed and organized manner, because we know that we have to plan and act in a united way to get the maximum impact for the benefit of the children.

So, people, my idea is simple. Whatever is being done here on NVS and whatever we are doing at the Google group are one and the same. Both should be seen as one effort and both must complement each other. The difference in my mind is that while anyone can come here and talk or vent their anger, only someone committed to doing something tangible about the issue will take the pain to go to the Google group and register to contribute financially, materially and intellectually to this effort.

I am therefore using this opportunity to once again urge more members to join up with our effort at the Google group. At this moment, we are still welcoming members and are waiting to get a critical mass before we begin to fully discuss the whole vision. The only thing we have agreed on as a short-term aim is to organize a proper Christmas party for the kids. We are yet to begin discussion on medium and long-term strategies to meet the challenges enumerated. If anyone is concerned about authenticity of this group, please go there and see that Mr Sam Ikpe-Utauma, the man who courageously began this crusade by taking in four ‘condemned' children; the man who got it all started with his charity, the Child's Rights And Rehabilitation Network (CRARN) is there in the group. Gary Foxcroft who runs Stepping Stones Nigeria has promised to join us sometime soon and we can't wait to welcome him as well!

So, people, there's nothing to wait for! If you feel a tinge of conscience, join us now to move the group forward. In the next few weeks we shall be collecting your Christmas gifts for the children and every item shall be recorded and acknowledged immediately. We shall also be collecting donations towards the Christmas party and other pressing affairs at the camp and every penny must be recorded and delivered whole to those actually doing the job down there. Anyone who doubts our intention only needs to know that those who have put their lives on the line to begin this crusade and take it this far are part of what we are doing. We trust Sam! We trust Gary! All we ask is that you trust yourself by joining up with us to make a difference. Let there be no unnecessary dichotomy in our effort. Let's unite and act strongly for the good of these long-suffering kids.


To join the group, click the link below and click the "Join the group" link on the right hand side of the page:


http://groups.google.com/group/thenigerianchild?hl=en



CHEERS!

Anioma777
Nov 19, 2008, 04:50 AM
Well written Kenn1!!!!

What are you guys waiting for do something be it short term or long term. The proposed christmas party by the google group is a fantastic idea and a good start before the long term plans for CRARN are finalised and set in motion.:D

Kenn
Nov 19, 2008, 06:49 AM
Whatever you say about them, they take care of their own:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081118/ap_on_re_us/evangelist_child_abuse

WaleAkin
Nov 19, 2008, 07:04 AM
Whatever you say about them, they take care of their own:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081118/ap_on_re_us/evangelist_child_abuse Lets take care of our own too starting with the Kids of Esit Eket!

VOR
Nov 19, 2008, 12:03 PM
Thanks Kenn1

You capture what I feel regarding this issue. To keep quiet about this issue or bury one's head in the sand is the greatess disservice one can do to humanity in general and Christianity in particular.

Apart from donating money, you can volunteer your services at the centre. Are you a doctor? Can you give up 1 week to spend at the refuge? Are you an IT person, can you do the same?

There are lots of avenues people can help, what you need to do is think how you can help these children, every positive effort counts!

We need to take care of our kids, they are our future.

tanibaba
Nov 19, 2008, 01:05 PM
Thanks Kenn1

You capture what I feel regarding this issue. To keep quiet about this issue or bury one's head in the sand is the greatess disservice one can do to humanity in general and Christianity in particular.

Apart from donating money, you can volunteer your services at the centre. Are you a doctor? Can you give up 1 week to spend at the refuge? Are you an IT person, can you do the same?

There are lots of avenues people can help, what you need to do is think how you can help these children, every positive effort counts!

We need to take care of our kids, they are our future.

Honestly helping the children is important but it is not as important as fighting the decadent social system that produced the likes of Helen Ukpabio.
]
I believe we should insist that the perpetrators should be brought to book , the local press should give publicity to the story and we should compel the state assembly to review the matter and pass appropriate laws to deter those who may want to try this in the future.
Relevant NGOs should also assist government through enlightenment so that the people can be properly informed.

The last point is difficult because if you go to most pentecostal churches these days you hear more of satan than God. They present christianity from the witches and wizards angle so it will be difficult to disabuse the minds of our people of these things.

taslim

VOR
Nov 19, 2008, 08:12 PM
Honestly helping the children is important but it is not as important as fighting the decadent social system that produced the likes of Helen Ukpabio.
]
I believe we should insist that the perpetrators should be brought to book , the local press should give publicity to the story and we should compel the state assembly to review the matter and pass appropriate laws to deter those who may want to try this in the future.
Relevant NGOs should also assist government through enlightenment so that the people can be properly informed.

The last point is difficult because if you go to most pentecostal churches these days you hear more of satan than God. They present christianity from the witches and wizards angle so it will be difficult to disabuse the minds of our people of these things.

taslim

Egbon I agree with most of what you've written.

My wish is to see those who confessed to abusing these children arrested prosecuted and convicted like tomorrow. However, we need to be careful of reprisal attacks on the refuge by followers of these pastors and prophets. An enlightment campaign and getting the support of the state and local govt along with the security service is what I believe we need to do first.

If we can get round the clock police protection for the refuge, then we can ask that these charlatans are picked up immediately!

Also we know how we pass laws in Nigeria and these laws are not enforced. NASS introduced the ban on spraying in Nigeria recently, you'll not believe that recently I attended a party in Nigeria where the major 'sprayers' were legislators!!

I support an awareness campaign within the communities backed by religious bodies, community groups, media, govt etc, followed by a methodical application of laws in the State. We are nearly there once the will is in place

I am a bit sceptical about some of these NGO's, most of them just seek funding and then disappear till the funding runs out and then find another "project" to seek funding from!

Ajibs
Nov 19, 2008, 09:57 PM
So sad!!!
I have to blame Abuja.

WHAT??????????? :confused1:confused1:confused1

Thanks to Kenn1, Big-K, VOR, EMJ, WaleAkin and others making a move on this. I have sent a PM to emj and VOR with some ideas. Please get back to me when you can.

I am all for making the lives of the childeren in the village better and that is probably the immediate concern, but we also need to look at the long term solution. I see there is an enligtenment campaign. (Kenn, I visited the google page but to be honest I am not 100% sure what's going on there!). If we do not work on the people they will keep dropping off more kids at the center.

After beratting gwappa, up there let me confess that he does have a point, there is an indirect link to Abuja in this. Poverty as many have said is one of the root causes of this situation. BUT!!! Its also the cultural beliefs of our people I think is the larger culprit of these kids plight. Our belief in the supernatural has in too many cases gone too far. Make no mistake about it evil exists, and I will say boldly indeed SOME kids may indeed be witches. Without a doubt. Problem is how can we ever tell fact from fiction? I watched the "prophetess & prophet" with the 8 locked up kids discribing: this one killed her parents, that one killed her grandmother...

What conclusive proof do they have? Saved for a confession after what can be considred pure torture probably? Ironically we have the case of the 8 year old in the US now who is alleged ot have killed his father and another man living in the house. The boy was interrogated bythe Cops without an adult present, he changed his story several times, before saying that he shot them. Now which of his 3-4 versions of what happened is actually true?

So these so called religious leaders get confessions out of these kids than nobody can tell if they are true or not. Ironially, I will like to ask them. Suppose, indeed some of them are witches, how do you physically beat a witch out of a child? Does breaking a childs arm affect the witch? How does driving a 3 inch nail into a girl head kill the witch in her??? Lord have mercy!!!

To all Villagers
Everyone needs to check themselves and what we do. I have tried to go through this thread, I took a look at most pages save for a few, I have been surprised to find a few very vocal villagers absent from this thread. This thread should have more hits and responses than ANY OTHER thread in NVS right now, yet some are still worried about OBJ or stoning in Somalia, lets be honest, that 13 year old girl IS DEAD AND GONE, oya, take care of the living not the dead. This is more important than Obj shining congo, this is more important than Yar'Adua's new ministers, this is even more important that Arogundade!

All the gra-gra is unecessary, if this pains you that much simply do something and stop making noise. Either;

1. Donate to the survival of the kids and the center (Money,time,anything).

2. Participate in enlightenment of the people

3. Prevail on the Akwa Ibom government and others to enforce the law

4. Shut Up. (A white man is on the ground doing wonders we are here blowing gramma).
Is that not very simple?

No Smoking
Nov 19, 2008, 10:24 PM
The parents of those children are willing, even if unwitting, participants in the sad saga brought to light. They collaborate by succumbing to the "diagnosis" of the "prophets". Moreover, it may be argued that poor parents are taking the opportunity to off-load children that they are unable to provide for by their own resources. Any parent whose child is found in that group should be made to contribute to their upkeep, either in cash or in kind.

The local press and the local police are all constituted by the same local people who are themselves overwhelmed by the forces of evil. Yet, there must be some, like Sam, who may be found for the commencement of local enlightenment campaigns.

emj
Nov 21, 2008, 01:35 AM
WHAT??????????? :confused1:confused1:confused1

Thanks to Kenn1, Big-K, VOR, EMJ, WaleAkin and others making a move on this. I have sent a PM to emj and VOR with some ideas. Please get back to me when you can.

I am all for making the lives of the childeren in the village better and that is probably the immediate concern, but we also need to look at the long term solution. I see there is an enligtenment campaign. (Kenn, I visited the google page but to be honest I am not 100% sure what's going on there!). If we do not work on the people they will keep dropping off more kids at the center.

After beratting gwappa, up there let me confess that he does have a point, there is an indirect link to Abuja in this. Poverty as many have said is one of the root causes of this situation. BUT!!! Its also the cultural beliefs of our people I think is the larger culprit of these kids plight. Our belief in the supernatural has in too many cases gone too far. Make no mistake about it evil exists, and I will say boldly indeed SOME kids may indeed be witches. Without a doubt. Problem is how can we ever tell fact from fiction? I watched the "prophetess & prophet" with the 8 locked up kids discribing: this one killed her parents, that one killed her grandmother...

What conclusive proof do they have? Saved for a confession after what can be considred pure torture probably? Ironically we have the case of the 8 year old in the US now who is alleged ot have killed his father and another man living in the house. The boy was interrogated bythe Cops without an adult present, he changed his story several times, before saying that he shot them. Now which of his 3-4 versions of what happened is actually true?

So these so called religious leaders get confessions out of these kids than nobody can tell if they are true or not. Ironially, I will like to ask them. Suppose, indeed some of them are witches, how do you physically beat a witch out of a child? Does breaking a childs arm affect the witch? How does driving a 3 inch nail into a girl head kill the witch in her??? Lord have mercy!!!

To all Villagers
Everyone needs to check themselves and what we do. I have tried to go through this thread, I took a look at most pages save for a few, I have been surprised to find a few very vocal villagers absent from this thread. This thread should have more hits and responses than ANY OTHER thread in NVS right now, yet some are still worried about OBJ or stoning in Somalia, lets be honest, that 13 year old girl IS DEAD AND GONE, oya, take care of the living not the dead. This is more important than Obj shining congo, this is more important than Yar'Adua's new ministers, this is even more important that Arogundade!

All the gra-gra is unecessary, if this pains you that much simply do something and stop making noise. Either;

1. Donate to the survival of the kids and the center (Money,time,anything).

2. Participate in enlightenment of the people

3. Prevail on the Akwa Ibom government and others to enforce the law

4. Shut Up. (A white man is on the ground doing wonders we are here blowing gramma).
Is that not very simple?

Hmmm....NAR....thanks for the encouraging words....even as we lay our Head to sleep tonight, remember those children and those who have put their own future on hold to take care of them.

You might be thinking, i don't have anything to give...wrong...you can give of your time by sending encouraging emails to Gary and Sam. You can call Gary and Sam..depending on your location.....you can talk to your contacts who might know someone that have access to things and areas that will bring about more good/ness.

You can share your thoughts with us on this Board if you are too shy to join the Google group...the Google group was created so that people from all over the world and our friends and families that are not NVS members can join in discussions.....don't just browse...join and have your say.....surprise yourself for once and also help us help this children.

We've received all manner of ideas from members, friends and family, and dare say that we are encouraged that people can see the need for us to do something...:eek:

PS>>>....i know that you did not join NVS to be part of every charity....you're probably here to de-stress.....i did not mean to make you restless, neither are we doing this to feel good. We are doing this because we are people who cannot look the other way, when it comes to man's inhumanity to man....no matter how hard we try....and this is just one of such.

Dare to Sponsor One or Two of those children today!

Please throw a prayer or thought the way of the children and others all over the world when you wake up and before you go to Bed..Thanks:arrow:

"I will lift up my eyes to the hills — From whence comes my help? My help comes from the Lord, Who made heaven and earth." Psalm 121:1-2

A good conscience has no reason to appease God because those who have it know they are in right standing with God — not because they obey all the rules but because He has forgiven them on the basis of what Christ has done (the only fully obedient Son, by the way).


Eternity In Our Hearts
"...but the truth is we're all travelers who have not reached our final destination." --Carolyn Arends

Anioma777
Nov 21, 2008, 08:39 AM
@emj

The google group are getting information from Sam and then will execute the plans.If you are not sure what is going on. ASK!!!! You will get a response but be patient.

I personally my interests is in the short term and long term welfare of these children. As for wanting to change people's diabolical minds that is something I think one has to be on the ground to even just begin to be heard. Unfortunately the average Nigerian rich,middle class or poor still have this "subhuman" diabolical mindset that follows them anywhere they go.

So long as they have this mindet and you have EVIL PENTECOSTAL pastors and poverty as bed mates the idea a noble one could take until the end of time to eradicate.

emj have a look at the update from mulan on the google group about her chat with Sam. Its not all bad news.

AwakeNigeria
Nov 21, 2008, 10:16 PM
Do Helen Ukpabio and the other evil pastors on one hand and the good people of Akwa Ibom State on the other realize that they are mortgaging the future/destiny of their people by killing, maiming and destroying their children?

Whilst other Nigerians in Lagos, Abuja, Port Harcourt, Enugu, etc are busy herding their children to Playground, Kindergarten, Nursery and Primary Schools as early as 7:00 a.m and showering them with love and tenderness, Helen Ukpabio and company are busy destroying their own children (future of Akwa Ibom State) with their own hands.

Kind-hearted people all over the world will send relief, cash donations, clothes, gifts, etc with a view to rehabilitating and restoring these disenfranchised children of Akwa Ibom State, but 'tiwon lo ju oh!' (ultimately the responsibility lies with the parents and people of Akwa Ibom State) In Akure variant of the Yoruba language, "eleru lo ke 'ofe'" (He who has load to lift from the floor will be the first to make an attempt before others can offer helping hands).

Vade Mecum
Nov 21, 2008, 10:20 PM
I am still too shocked for words

It is both alarming and heart breaking, to hear that this type of evil is happening, right in Nigeria

Lord have mercy

I am just too shocked and dazed, to read about these evil acts and the evil folks doing them.

Father lord, please protect your little children

VOR
Nov 21, 2008, 11:58 PM
Its not all bad news.

Anioma 777, yes after speaking with Sam and the report we received from CRARN, it appears its not all bad news, some of the children are slowly been accepted by some members of the community, however there is still a lot to be done. For example, I find it quite worrying that these "witch" children are not allowed to attend the school set up by Stepping Stones with assistance from Akwa Ibom state govt because they have been excluded due to the witchcraft allegation!

No Smoking
Nov 22, 2008, 12:29 AM
... I find it quite worrying that these "witch" children are not allowed to attend the school set up by Stepping Stones with assistance from Akwa Ibom state govt because they have been excluded due to the witchcraft allegation.

That stigma may prove harder to wear out than even the Osu caste.. :eek:
Nurturing the kids in special settings may harm them on the long run, since the finger-pointing will not go-away.

Community enlightenment, re-integration of the kids and positive prosecution of the defaulting parents and prophets could prove to be more tangible.

VOR
Nov 22, 2008, 01:21 AM
This letter is in Friday's Guardian. I hope the Nigerian press will take up this issue and help in the campaign to stop this practice in Akwa Ibom and other parts of Nigeria where such practices occur.

Saving ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:place>Nigeria</ST1:place></st1:country-region>'s 'Witch Children' ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>
SIR: A documentary on Channel 4 Television here in the <st1:country-region><ST1:place>UK</ST1:place></st1:country-region> on <st1:date Month="11" Day="12" Year="2008">November 12, 2008</st1:date> sent tears down my cheek. The programme entitled 'Saving Africa's Witch Children' was about the horrific practices in Akwa-Ibom state in the name of Christianity. <O:p></O:p>
Children (most of them under 7) are branded witches and wizards by pastors. They are blamed for all sorts of evils like poverty, sickness, death and sundry misfortunes. These pastors and their parents subject them to all sorts of inhuman treatment in a perceived bid to exorcise the 'evil spirit'. These include imprisonment in the church, starvation, burning with fire and acid, machete cuts, abandonment and some are even killed! In one of the cases, a boy's shoulder blade was sticking out after unimaginable physical violence. Another had a nail driven into her skull. She has been reduced to a *****. <O:p></O:p>
Many were burnt with acid and fire with horrific injuries. A woman abandoned her two children - a 5-year old and a 2-month old - because according to her, she had surrendered her life savings to her pastor in a bid to exorcise the witchcraft from her daughter. The pastor later told her that the spirit was too strong and had in fact entered the two-month old as well. She, being emotionally and financially drained and to avoid the misfortune she was told will befall her if she continues to live with the children, abandoned them on the street. <O:p></O:p>
A pastor was shown boasting that he had personally killed 120 'witch children' in Akwa Ibom and that the number of witches and wizards living in the state is 2.3 million. This is absolute scandal. I sat through the one-hour documentary with a mixture of sadness, outrage and embarrassment. Some of the pastors and their faithful interviewed claimed the children confessed. An innocent trusting child will tell you she is a witch only to the extent that those she trusts most - her parents and pastors - make her believe she is. It is no different from being told by your doctor you have malaria. You trust him, you believe him. <O:p></O:p>
Furthermore, 'confession' is what you get when you unleash unspeakable physical and emotional violence on mere children. To imagine that they mention Jesus Christ in their egregious trade makes me sick. If this is Christianity, it is definitely not as we know it. <O:p></O:p>
Some of those interviewed attributed the practice to a film by Pastor Helen Ukpabio entitled 'End of the Wicked'. While any evidence of this is anecdotal, films that demonise children are never healthy for the society. It is disheartening that while other parts of the world are strengthening their Child Protection laws, Nigerian children are being tortured, maimed and murdered in the name of Christianity. The federal government must conduct a full-scale investigation into this national shame and bring the perpetrators of this evil to book. The past two days were some of the most difficult for me having to identify with my country. <O:p></O:p>
An Italian friend that saw the documentary saw me and started crying. It is that bad. Things like these are never good for our image as a nation. Appropriate laws must be enacted to protect our children. I equally expect influential figures in Christian Association of Nigeria like Archbishop Onaiyekan to step in and save Christianity from ridicule and opprobrium.

<O:p></O:p>
Fabian Obiora,
University of <ST1:place><st1:City>Wolverhampton Business School</st1:City>,
<st1:country-region>United Kingdom</st1:country-region></ST1:place><O:p></O:p>


http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/

Ajibs
Nov 22, 2008, 01:28 AM
This letter is in Friday's Guardian. I hope the Nigerian press will take up this issue and help in the campaign to stop this practice in Akwa Ibom and other parts of Nigeria where such practices occur.

http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/

VOR,
I am glad the Guardian printed the letter. Fact is, this is going to be a long drawn out fight. I have a sinking feeling that what we see in Akwa Ibom today is taking place in many many cities and towns across Nigeria. My hope is that we use the Akwa Ibom kids as the forerunners to bringing and end to our mostly great but sometimes very strange harmfull cultural beliefs, made worde by the poverty and these so called Pastors. I am going to try to stay on this for the long haul, I hope some of us will as well. I would much rather see smiles on these kids faces and know that indeed we are taking care of our own.

VOR
Nov 22, 2008, 01:32 AM
indeed we are taking care of our own


Gbam!

That's it! taking care of our own because no one else will!!

Big-K
Nov 22, 2008, 03:18 AM
Hello Everyone,

The NVS Xmas Angel team has decided to donate $1500 of amounts donated towards a christmas cheer to the Akwa Ibom kids. The team will liaise with emj and team on how best to get this across to CRAHN - cash or in kind.

Mikky jaga
Nov 22, 2008, 06:41 AM
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.

Anioma777
Nov 22, 2008, 06:41 AM
Well done Big-K and NVS.

Bunch17
Nov 22, 2008, 07:13 AM
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.

The mindset of the above contributor that led to the abuse of these children. May I suggest that while spending to make things better for these children, we should keep some money aside to be used to educate people like the above as it is this level of ignorance that makes such evil deeds thrive.

valteena
Nov 22, 2008, 08:07 AM
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.


Mikky jaga it is very :sad::sad: sad that someone like you think this way. It just goes to show how huge a task we are faced with. Apart from having to take care of these kids both in the short and long term, we have to reorientate the thinking of people like you who should know better as well.

How do you know that these kids are witches. What evidence do you base your "assumption" on. And since you seem to believe that these children are witches, and would like so much to deliver them from the withcraft, why don't you come up with the "more humane method" of delivering them if there is any such method :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

Ajibs
Nov 22, 2008, 09:28 AM
MJ,
I am terribly surprised at your contribution below, so you support the use of 3 inch nails to hammer the heads of kids to drive out witches? Any examples of where this has worked?

I have also noted that we are not to discount that witches exist, but tell me how do you determine who is a witch and who is not?


So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.

Mikky jaga
Nov 22, 2008, 10:27 AM
Na wah for herd mentality!

Bunch17 does not believe witches exist. Is that what all the other respondents here believe?

Valteena wants evidence. She was not sure if the children were witches yet she was ready to jump on the bandwagon of civilized people that do not believe in witches.

N.A.R. was way off. After making myself clear that such methods as he suggested were not right, he still went ahead to impute such to me, just to satisfy the herd mentality that he too belongs.

Whether we like it or not, whether we be Oyibo wannabe or not, the fact on ground here in Naija is that witches are real and very wicked. Check out why Mountain of Fire became a phenomenon in just its few years of existence.

And if Bunch17 wants to enlighten people, he has better do such with convincing proof that people can see. Blowing grammar across the atlantic does not deny the existence of witches or drive them out of people possessed with them. Even Oyiboman wey una dey ape believe in witchcraft hence the existence of the word in their lexicon.

Make una dey deceive unaself there. Me I no sabi that kain thing,.

WaleAkin
Nov 22, 2008, 03:17 PM
Mikky Jaga,

One question pls: How do you know if someone(In this case a child) is a WITCH?

I need you to answer this question so we can take the debate up from there.

I await ur response ASAP.

Cheers

emj
Nov 22, 2008, 04:48 PM
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.

Good of you to point out the obvious to us as a Christian......it might interest you to know that there are various ways of wroughting deliverance.....one of which is the word of God.

For a Minister of God who is in the Deliverance Ministry like Helen not to know that apart from wroughting Spiritual Deliverance...that is after you've identified that the person is possessed...you need to also rehabilitate by filling the space that the demon has left with the word of God and other humane actions....remember we wrestle not against flesh and blood but principalities and powers and of course wickedness in high places

A question to you then is...why is it that Helen has not been able to deliver this children and use the resources available to her to rehabilitate them?
If you noticed in the video...there where children locked in a room by some of those deliverance ministers and some in chains at another church...can you chain evil spirits? The spirit if u understand can jump from one person to another...can u catch breeze?
Is it only at night that witches and wizards operate?

All over Africa...unfortunately, we use the excuse of someone being possesses to perpetrate evil.

What is wrong in showing this children some love? Is that not the first commandment from God? Please read the word of God which is available to all...and receive understanding...cheers.
Now i have something in my country to lend a helping hand the best way i can..through campaign and sensitizing and someone then comes to the board the spew the above.....we all claim to be educated and can boast of some sort of intelligence...but unfortunately not intelligent enough.
Some of us claim to be Xtians...are we really xtians?

Right now we need cooperation is terms of ideas, connections by reaching out to those in those locale back home where there is need for more enlightenment...and also the prosecution of those killing children by giving them strange concotions and sodas..and even driving all form of objects through their head.

@ The Xmas Angel Team,
A big thank you to the Xmas Angel Team for stepping forward to be of help with this immediate need to show love and give the children some sort of hope.....their are next steps being put in place by us to follow things through.

We all daily receive in the mail and even calls to help one charity or the other...i in the course of the week receive not less than 10 phone calls and mails...$20 here $50 there all adds up.....some are to children in Africa, and some for Urgent medical needs in my Samaria an even Jerusalem...i try to attend to the ones that i can and of course you feel awful turning others back.


PS>.....Dare To Deliver This Children With Your Money/Ideas/Prayers.

Mikky jaga
Nov 22, 2008, 04:57 PM
Mikky Jaga,

One question pls: How do you know if someone(In this case a child) is a WITCH?

I need you to answer this question so we can take the debate up from there.

I await ur response ASAP.

Cheers

My brother, how you want make I know now?

I am not suggesting that any or all of those children are witches. I am not an expert in that area. All I know is that witches exist and they can do very serious evil damage to whoever they decide to attack. There are witches coven everywhere and of course there are society of witches. A little google on the subject of witches will tell you all you want to know about witches.

I have not seen witches before, but that does not mean they are not there. Witchcraft is not fought by physical means. It is cleansed by spiritual means. So, those punishing those children are quacks, charlattans and agents of the devil. Jesus never afflicted anyone before casting out the devil in them. If they are Christians they would not subject children or adults to such savagery in the pretext that they are casting out witches.

Children can be initiated into witchcraft by friends or parents. Buying candy for them at Christmas will not deliver them from the evil practice. There are, however men of God who can deliver witches with just the power of prayers and without charging one kobo.

Mikky jaga
Nov 22, 2008, 05:07 PM
EMJ,

Please do not get me wrong!

I never said do not give them rice and chicken for Christmas. Afterall witches too must wack. But while we are thinking of their physical needs, let us spare a thought for their spiritual need. If a genuine man of God declares that there is no witch among them: Glory to God.

A child witch that is not delivered, but pampered or shown love as you put it will grow up to become very dangerous in future. Think about this; unless, of course, you do not believe that witches exist.

emj
Nov 22, 2008, 05:14 PM
EMJ,

Please do not get me wrong!

I never said do not give them rice and chicken for Christmas. Afterall witches too must wack. But while we are thinking of their physical needs, let us spare a thought for their spiritual need. If a genuine man of God declares that there is no witch among them: Glory to God.

A child witch that is not delivered, but pampered or shown love as you put it will grow up to become very dangerous in future. Think about this; unless, of course, you do not believe that witches exist.

My dear MJ, you are a witch..walahi....as a matter of fact two of my NVS friends confessed to me that they are witches and they did join me at a long distant coven yesterday night....as i wuz talking to one on phone, the other one called in and fiam laik dat i found myself in their coven...and we did not get back till the wee hrs of the morning.....all international witches.

The other day i saw a woman on a Broom stick all dressed in Black hovering over my house and immediately i shouted ahoy, she fell yakata juess laik dat...is she a winch?:cool:

Ewuro
Nov 22, 2008, 05:26 PM
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.

Micky Jaga,
I do not know whether you have children of your own. If you do not have, I believe you have nephews, nieces, and cousins who are children. Since you believe there are children witches, tell us how many of your own children, nephews, nieces and cousins are. Since you are such an expert, you might also tell us how you delivered them from witchcraft powers.

You might also tell us how you deny them of christmas parties and gifts.

Sisimi
Nov 22, 2008, 05:28 PM
http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=7727&sec=39&con=60

“Plight of Nigerian 'wizard' boy”

by Yusuf Muhammad (“BBC News,” September 11, 2003)
Nigerians feel under siege. At places of worship, at school, at places of work, and virtually everywhere, they discuss what they describe as the ravages of witchcraft and in recent times, cultism.

In the northern Nigerian state of Taraba, for instance, some parents have been threatening to withdraw their children from school.

According to them, children attending nursery, primary and even secondary schools, are being initiated into witchcraft and cultism.

They say that the practice is not acceptable to them and that it is "safer to have an illiterate child than one deeply engrossed in witchcraft".

And, this is a typical scenario in virtually all the 36 states of Nigeria.

Every day new stories related to witches and witchcraft emerge.

One such case, in the northern Nigerian city of Kaduna, gives an insight into how superstition has gripped many people.

In the suburb of Nasarawa I met Mbawo. His family had thrown him out of his home after he was accused of witchcraft.

Scavenging for food

He could not tell me his age or say for how long he had been on the street.

But traders at the Nasarawa market, where Mbawo scavenges for food, told me he had been out there for over a year.

Mbawo's problems began when his stepmother and her little daughter died.

Suddenly everybody in the family agreed that the death was not natural and that it was the work of wizards, he recalls. All the accusing fingers were pointed at Mbawo.

Mbawo says he was tortured before he was evicted from his family home and that he is still hunted down by members of his family whenever a misfortune occurs.

'Torture'

At first, Mbawo slept in an abandoned building which had been destroyed during religious violence.

But he was forced to move after some relatives and their friends molested him there.

He now sleeps in market stalls, and says he feels much safer.

Mbawo initially tried to convince his family to take him back, but he says that only earned him more beatings.

"Sometimes they used a hot electric pressing iron on me," he said.

He refused to take me to his family, saying that would mean more torture for him.

'Disappeared'

One of the things that Mbawo says he is missing is school.

But, he says, he is planning "to find a job, save some money to rent a room and then start a decent life".

Some of the people I spoke to in Nasarawa told me that Mbawo was lucky to have survived.

They said that in the recent past many children were thrown out of their homes, accused of being witches.

"They have disappeared now, and there is this rumour that they have been killed, but I have not concrete proof," on local resident, Malam Shuaibu, told me.

Prince Audu Habu of Save the Child Foundation, a charity organisation in Kaduna, told me that they would use all available means to take over the custody of Mbawo.

"We will give him a new home and a new life," he said.

Mikky jaga
Nov 22, 2008, 05:55 PM
Madam EMJ, I am not a witch. But these things are real. If you do not believe, that is your problem. It does not mean those who believe are mugus or imbeciles. They have reasons for believing what they believe. I just pointed out another area people are overlooking in this matter. If you people think it is not important, good for you. Right?

@Ewuro

Your post there is so full of ignorance that it does not deserve any response. It is part of the herd mentality I am talking about. Read my previous posts on this thread and your ignorance will disappear.

VOR
Nov 23, 2008, 12:37 AM
Oga Mikky

You confuse me o! On one hand you say you are not able to determine who is a witch and who isn't and on the other hand state that these children some fake prophet and prophetesses claim are witches should not be given some Christmas cheer. So are you saying that you believe the verdict of these prophets, since you are not able to determine if they are witches or not?


A child witch that is not delivered, but pampered or shown love as you put it will grow up to become very dangerous in future. Think about this; unless, of course, you do not believe that witches exist

The greatess command of all is love! You cannot love God if you are unable to love your neighbour. I have not seen deliverance done by pouring acid on children. Deliverance is done by the word of God and the power in the blood of Jesus, we overcome by the blood, not by acid, machetes, cutlasses or banishment, not so?

Another thing you exhibit in your post is the spirit of fear! What are we taught about fear? Do you not trust the God you serve, has He not given you the authority to bring down powers, principalities and rulers in dark places? Even MFM you mention, have you seen their deliverance session, what weapons do they use during deliverance?

The Christmas party being arranged for these children is to make them feel human again after all the trauma they have been put through, to show them there exists a community of people who love and believe in them. If these children are eating rice and chicken on Christmas day as millions of children all around the world will be doing with their family and friends, why begrudge them that?
Don't you see the irony of it? Supposed winch children celebrating the birth of Jesus!! What better way to introduce them to this Jesus that some people have made them believe must be a nasty person!

The Christmas party is a short term plan, if any of those kids need deliverance (apart from the deliverance they need from those sicko prophets etc.) they will get deliverance through prayers and love not through torture or ostracising!

As you enjoy your Christmas with your family, spare a thought for these kids whose only sin is because they were born in a country where people will do anything to get rich quick, even if it means turning the word of God upside down.


@Countess

The supreme council is very angry with you for divulging the info on the meeting last night! walahi, your broom stick has been seized and a "no fly zone" imposed on you till further notice :D :wink:

Uncle Sam
Nov 23, 2008, 01:52 AM
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.



The existence or non-existence of witches is not the issue here. The issue is that children are being singled out as witches.

Ask yourself: Are adults also being singled out? if no, why?

So when poor ignorant people die, it is because their children are witches and wizards as they are so accused by money seeking devil possessed pastors?

But when the rich thieving politicians steal our monies and suck us dry, it is because their children are angelic who brings success to their family?

IBB's children brought riches to their family!

Obasanjo's children brought riches to thier family!

Yaradua's children brought success to their papa abi?



Yes! Even the Bible mentions witches so many times I can't remember how many.

The Bible also sanctioned slavery too. Is slavery right?

Mikky, when I was younger and growing up, elders taught me that when a person has their stomach, and limbs all swollen, they are marked to be killed by a deity of an african religion. And true to the elders that individual died in less than a year or thereabout.

Today I know better. Such deaths are not caused by deities.... IT IS CAUSED BY DIABETES. The symptoms of diabetes are swollen limbs and tummy. Are there doctors in the house? Please confirm this.


I am not against your belief process. You have a right to it and many have your belief process too.

About fifteen years ago, over a period of time, a few people were brought home to die. They were bone skinny. They could not stand on their own. And the belief then in my village was that they are being sucked off blood to death by witches within the immediate families.

We now know that they had AIDS. NOT WITCHES!

Back then, there was this young, vibrant, rich man. He was popular. Musicians sung his name. He was full of life. Three days after we all attended a party he died in his sleep. Ifa priests accused his mother of killing him through witchcraft. The old lady later died because of grief, stress and shame. But alas... its a lie.... the son died of heart attack like most black young men.


When are we going to be really educated?

And yes, I suggested adoption for these kids and I am glad adoption is already happening.

princessdiamond
Nov 23, 2008, 02:23 AM
I am just glad someone was brave enough to show what actually happens in my state all in the name of christianity. Poor people spend all their time and money in these so called churches fighting the unseen spiritual powers and partaking in so called deliverance services. These poor children are the future of our nation and they are physically, mentally and emotionally tortured and totally scarred for life. We all turn a blind eye to these happenings because it does not affect us directly, but we forget it harms the people and nation once it goes public. This happens not only in Akwa Ibom but across Nigeria and the whole of Africa. Culture and tradition stepped in Superstition is what controls us all. SHAME ON US

Ajibs
Nov 23, 2008, 03:58 AM
Na wah for herd mentality!

Bunch17 does not believe witches exist. Is that what all the other respondents here believe?

Valteena wants evidence. She was not sure if the children were witches yet she was ready to jump on the bandwagon of civilized people that do not believe in witches.

N.A.R. was way off. After making myself clear that such methods as he suggested were not right, he still went ahead to impute such to me, just to satisfy the herd mentality that he too belongs.

Whether we like it or not, whether we be Oyibo wannabe or not, the fact on ground here in Naija is that witches are real and very wicked. Check out why Mountain of Fire became a phenomenon in just its few years of existence.

And if Bunch17 wants to enlighten people, he has better do such with convincing proof that people can see. Blowing grammar across the atlantic does not deny the existence of witches or drive them out of people possessed with them. Even Oyiboman wey una dey ape believe in witchcraft hence the existence of the word in their lexicon.

Make una dey deceive unaself there. Me I no sabi that kain thing,.

MJ
The problem is you have no evidence that these kids are witches, but you are wiling to accept the conclusion without any further proof that the abandoned kids are witches. You have admitted you do not know how to tell who is a witch and who is not, so why are you concluding that they are witches? Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Why have they not killed the people now taking care of them at the center?

I begi stop jare, nobody is saying witches do not exist, the questions is why do these kids deserve to be maltreated and abuse to such extremes.

Oluwato
Nov 23, 2008, 05:55 AM
The Bible also sanctioned slavery too. Is slavery right?


Uncle Sam, I appreciate what you've written above. I just want to add that the bible never sanctioned slavery. Slavery is recorded in the bible but it was not sanctioned... however, that is for another thread.

On Children being witches/wizards
Children are whatever adults made them. Can a child be initiated into witchcraft? YES. Can witchcraft be removed by physical beating and psychological torture? NO!!!

Ignorance of God's word is breeding ground for Satan. He enjoys manipulation and deception. I have attended white garment churches before and I know that almost every child is labeled as a witch (Emere, ogbanje, etc.) and ise (sacrifices, deliverance) is performed on such children... this is really presumption and deception.

When Jesus Christ cast out demons, He did not use a whip or physical torture, He simply commanded evil spirits to leave the person. If the children were/are really involved in the occult, deliverance is performed by casting out the spirit of witchcraft/seducing spirit/demon in Jesus name. Any other requirement (holy water, physical torture/maiming, molestation, etc.) is ignorance and ungodliness.

Let the fake ministers STOP using the name of Jesus Christ to destroy the next generation! Leave the children alone and love them.

Wayfarer
Nov 23, 2008, 07:13 AM
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist? Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? What is the effect on the society if we nurture and shield witches from infancy to adulthood? Are we not just postponing the evil days?

If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?

Someone suggested that people should volunteer to adopt some of these kids, I wonder if there is an African that will willingly adopt a child that had been found to possess witchcraft powers without first taking steps to "deliver" such children.

Yes, we do not stone witches to death today, but pampering them with Xmas party as if witchcraft does not exist or that it is such a harmless practise is go to the other extreme. While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed.

Please tell me that you wrote the above in jest. Please don't tell me that in the twenty first century, in an age when scicentific advances previously thought impossible are routinely made, that anybody still believes in witches and wizards.

Yes, Mikky, there are witches and wizards. Remember the green one that lived in the land beyond the yellow brick road, the one that was after Dorothy? Remember the wizard that lived in King Arthur's time, the one called Merlin?

Yes, there are witches and wizards alright. But they live in a land called "imagination". But they do not exist in the land called "the real world."

Na wa for African people.

WaleAkin
Nov 23, 2008, 09:01 AM
My brother, how you want make I know now?

I am not suggesting that any or all of those children are witches. I am not an expert in that area. All I know is that witches exist and they can do very serious evil damage to whoever they decide to attack. There are witches coven everywhere and of course there are society of witches. A little google on the subject of witches will tell you all you want to know about witches.

I have not seen witches before, but that does not mean they are not there. Witchcraft is not fought by physical means. It is cleansed by spiritual means. So, those punishing those children are quacks, charlattans and agents of the devil. Jesus never afflicted anyone before casting out the devil in them. If they are Christians they would not subject children or adults to such savagery in the pretext that they are casting out witches.

Children can be initiated into witchcraft by friends or parents. Buying candy for them at Christmas will not deliver them from the evil practice. There are, however men of God who can deliver witches with just the power of prayers and without charging one kobo.

Mikky Jaga,

I shall respond to the post above ASAP. My Boys out of their football prowess mistakenly stamped on the internet router and "scattered its head"- In one word, we are presently "internetless":evil:

"Dad, we are sorry, Dad, lets go buy a new one, Dad, its not me, its him"-Those were their words when i asked both to go face the wall:lol:

Homeboy
Nov 23, 2008, 10:06 AM
This Micky jagga mouse of a guy is a lost soul in the wilderness of superstitious fear that has from generation to generation shackled black people. And if he is a member of occult churches like Mountain of fire, Aladura, Celestial, Synagogue, christ embassy and all other Deiliverance and fire ministries then there is nothing anybody can do to him than to ransome him with a club to hell ( apologies Huckleberry finn) In this day and age when thieving politicians and evil manupulating pastors have wrecked havoc on every nation where there are black people, Youngmen Abi na oldmen like Mikky jagga Mouse should know better than accuse innocent children of any evil. Who initiated these children in the first place? is it not people like Helen Who? Why are the adults witches and wizards in the guise of pastors and diliverance ministers not tarred and feathered in the first place? Yeah right, blame it on the innocent and voiceless children. God will punish all of you Black parents who jump from one church to another seeking to destroy God's own little gifts. Thier own failures to hold accountable their politicians and pastors responsible for their misfortunes is what will eventually destroy the black race. Mickky Mouse jagga go and pray for your superstitious trapped soul.

Anioma777
Nov 23, 2008, 11:08 AM
@Mikky Jagga

Your stupidity is legendary!!! Ewuro good response to this bufoon called Mikky Jagga. It no wonder Nigeria and most of Africa remains backward.

Like I often argue with some "mumus" whenever I visit home, if this so called witchcraft and whatever funky names you call it are so powerful, how come when the white man invaded our land the witches and all so powerful mumbo jumbo where the first to "leg it" ( as the London cockney boys will say ).:D

I do believe evil forces do exist but their power is ONLY POTENT for those that get involved with them,fools and those with a weak faith in God.

As Vor said I don't recall God or Jesus saying you must hammer a 8 inch nail into a child's skull or words to that effect. The fact of the matter is that All these fake pastors,priests,deaconesses and new age churches are evil jazz merchants that have had a career change and seen mumus to prey on. To be honest I don't blame them, its the vulnerable bufoons who follow them like sheep and years gone by they are still poor and destitute and rightly so. I believe in Heaven help those who help themselves.

Mikky Jagga keep fooling yourself. Infact let me ask you something, are you guilty of wizardry or are you the representative of the Devil in Nigeria?

Anyway I hope God has mercy on your soul.....YOU BE REAL MUMU!!!!!:D

WaleAkin
Nov 23, 2008, 12:42 PM
Hello All,

I'd beg that we do not abuse and/or throw negative banters, caustic innuendoes at our Friend, Mikky Jaga but instead try to educate and make him see reason why his post above is outrightly way out of order!
So, now that we are planning a Christmas party for these kids, are we saying witches do not exist?Yes, we are planning a Xmas party for the Kids cos:

1. They have been abandoned and uncatered for.

2. They lack parental care and at such younge age, we need to make them feel like Human Beings.

3. Most importantly because He is the Reason for the Season!

4. The He in question teaches us explicitly to help the LITTLE ONES and whosoever disrupt their lives should have a millstone tied to his neck and drown at sea!
Are we saying some or all of these children can not be witches? As at the last count and as confirmed by the Proprietor, they now have 153 Children and whilst Villager Kenn was on the phone with him, they brought in another Child-What a pity! I asked you a very pertinent question which you have cleverly dodged and i ask again, How do you know a Witch? We need to answer this question and since you started this very heated debate, i'd suggest that you go read up and come back pls but per-adventure, you are not able to return with a detailed response, then i'd assume that you did not prepare well before jumping unto this thread with such blantant disregard to public decorum! I put it to you that those Children are NOT witches, it's just a wrong accusation borne out of poverty and lack of proper education. The eediotic "Bishop" who said and i quote him "There are 2.3 Mirrion(sic) witches in Akwa Ibom state"-What a statement! Now, whats the exact number of Nigerians resident in that state? I posit that until we are able to prove that the said children are witches, they remain free. I just wonder whats going on inside the mind of the parents:

1. Do they have a conscience at all?

2. Do they have blood flowing in their veins?

3. What has happened to their thinking faculties? Messed up with some spiritual jingoism?
If we do not support Helen Akpabio's method of dealing with the witch issues, are there no better ways of dealing with the issue other than pamper and allow them to go on with their nefarious activities?
Kindly proffer the methods pls. Mikky, i am of the impression that you did go to school, i mean a Tertiary institution! If yes, then you must have been taught that when you are engaged in a public debate and you state your argument, you are also obliged to back up such argument with proofs that are tenable. YES, we do not agree with Pastor(?) Helen Ukpabio, we strongly ask that she be prosecuted now but if you have such knowledge as to who is classified as witch, please, kindly tell us and also proffer methods to deal with such!

While we rescue these kids from the killer squads that are hell bent on unleashing terror on them, we should find a more humane method of delivering them from the withcraft powers. To do otherwise is to nurture deadly snakes under one's bed. State these methods pls? Are you insinuating that because they have been called witches(?), they should NOT be fed, sheltered and clothed? Should they be leave them to die of hunger? Mikky, whats on your mind?

I shall leave this space open until i read from you..............Maybe?.........Maybe!!

Onyeachonam-Okwu
Nov 23, 2008, 01:19 PM
VOR:
Uncle Sam:

Thank you guys for your rebuttal posts to Mikkyjaga. I couldn't say it any better. You words shine with the power of thought.

"When are we going to be really educated?"

Let us hope that Mikkijaga does not become part of the problem with his wierd kind of belief system.

I salut you all - VOR and Uncle Sam. Daalu nu.

valteena
Nov 23, 2008, 02:00 PM
Na wah for herd mentality!

Bunch17 does not believe witches exist. Is that what all the other respondents here believe?

Valteena wants evidence. She was not sure if the children were witches yet she was ready to jump on the bandwagon of civilized people that do not believe in witches.

N.A.R. was way off. After making myself clear that such methods as he suggested were not right, he still went ahead to impute such to me, just to satisfy the herd mentality that he too belongs.

Whether we like it or not, whether we be Oyibo wannabe or not, the fact on ground here in Naija is that witches are real and very wicked. Check out why Mountain of Fire became a phenomenon in just its few years of existence.

And if Bunch17 wants to enlighten people, he has better do such with convincing proof that people can see. Blowing grammar across the atlantic does not deny the existence of witches or drive them out of people possessed with them. Even Oyiboman wey una dey ape believe in witchcraft hence the existence of the word in their lexicon.

Make una dey deceive unaself there. Me I no sabi that kain thing,.

MK I believe this excuse of labelling majority view that does not tally with one's as "herd mentality" in this village is overused and becoming boring to the ears. So please spear me that phrase okay.

If you have a view that majority disagree with deal with. I express my views here irrespective of what other's views are. If tallies with the majority view fine, if it doesn't, it remains my view and I have no apologies for it.

In any case what is wrong with herd mentality especially if the herd are going in the right direction enh.

For your information, I believe that witches and wizards exist. Even the bible acknowledges the existence of evil.

However to me, every act of wickedness like the ones perpetuated against those kids is witchcraft and the perpetuators of such evil act witches and wizards. Not some flying object conjure up by the imagination of a delirious person

tengallons
Nov 23, 2008, 07:12 PM
As far as I am concerned, any individual's privately held belief about witches is not the issue. That, I can tolerate. In modern civil society, we buy our freedoms with our tolerance. The problem is when people cross the line to violate others' well being or civil rights in the name of witchhunting. Children are, in particular, a protected population as international and national legal instruments of governance consistently emphasize. The minute a "prophet" or "exorcist" causes criminal physical or mental suffering to a child (or adult) is when he or she should be taken down hard. That's the way it is if you want to be a nation of laws as opposed to being in a state of nature with "short, brutish, and nasty lives". Given the imprecise nature of the criteria here, who is to say that the person calling another a witch is not a witch himself or herself?

Talking about witches and nefarious activities, for me, the real witches are those who keep embezzling the money for the proper repair of the Lagos Benin road thus creating carnage, those who don't enforce proper building codes thus resulting in death by collapsed concrete, those who can't provide clean drinking water as they buy property in Dubai, those who ...

The nerve!

Kenn
Nov 23, 2008, 10:14 PM
Hello Everyone,

The NVS Xmas Angel team has decided to donate $1500 of amounts donated towards a christmas cheer to the Akwa Ibom kids. The team will liaise with emj and team on how best to get this across to CRAHN - cash or in kind.


Big-K & the Xmas Angels,

Your donation is welcome. May God continue to guide you and give you the wisdom to keep on doing what is right for the benefit of humanity. EMJ and the Google team will continue to keep you guys posted on progress. Once we've determined how to collect the donation, we will let you know immediately.

Once again, thank you for the gesture.

CHEERS AND STAY BLESSED!

Kenn
Nov 23, 2008, 10:16 PM
Please, those of you who are members of the Google group working on this issue should check your emails. I've sent something to you guys we need to work on before 4:00 pm (UK Time) tomorrow.

CHEERS!

Kenn
Nov 23, 2008, 10:37 PM
EMJ,

Please do not get me wrong!

I never said do not give them rice and chicken for Christmas. Afterall witches too must wack...

Mikky Jaga,

Your comment above is pathetic (just like the one describing people who've seen through your shallowness as exhibiting a herd mentality). You are sitting there in Port Harcourt callously accusing traumatized and abused little children in Akwa Ibom of being witches without proof of any sort. Actually, I've read all your comments here and can't help but feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for you because your views emanate from a potpourri of inherited fear, mental blindness, spiritual hollowness, hard-heartedness and sheer ignorance.

You really have a long way to go....

Mikky jaga
Nov 24, 2008, 06:29 AM
deleted. Double posting

Mikky jaga
Nov 24, 2008, 06:32 AM
Thanks all for your responses.

While you accused me of not having evidence that any or all of these children are witches, none of you could provide proofs that they are not. It is just what you believe against mine.

I believe a child that confesses to being a witch should be investigated by someone more spiritual and if it is found that the claim is true, the child should be sent for deliverance through prayer and never through any way of physical torture.

There are people that gather lepers into colonies today. Spending their money and time to take care of these people their relations have cast out to die in the streets. Good. But if they stop at providing only food and shelter for these lepers, have they solved their initial problems? The answer is definitely NO. In addition to providing these lepers with food and shelter, they must provide them with medical attention to take care of the leprosy that made their people cast them out in the first instance.

It is good to rehabilitate children that were tortured, dehumanized and cast out because of accusation of witchcraft. Without finding out whether these accusations are true or not, and then ensuring that the children are properly delivered, providing them food clothing and shelter will only be taking care of one aspect of their problem. The other aspect of the problem that led to their present predicament would have been left totally untouched.

Whether you believe there are witches or not, there are ample testimonies from both adults and children that had once been afflicted with the evil and who had been delivered by the power of prayers that your unbelief does not cut a dice where I am concerned.

And for the educated illiterates that think that all they will ever experience in life is what is contained in their philosophy books, I wish them good luck. I only wish to say that the leaders of many of these pentecostal churches that minister deliverance to witches are more well read and more travelled than most of you out there. They have seen these things real life and they have been involved in ministering delioverances to witches over the years.

I believe we are all agreed that the method of torturing both adults and children suspected of being witches is wrong. I say categorically here that genuine men of God that minister deliverance to witches and wizards do not employ such methods and they charge no kobo.

That is my take on this issue and I owe no one any apologies for that

Thank you.

valteena
Nov 24, 2008, 07:51 AM
Thanks all for your responses.

While you accused me of not having evidence that any or all of these children are witches, none of you could provide proofs that they are not. It is just what you believe against mine.

I believe a child that confesses to being a witch should be investigated by someone more spiritual and if it is found that the claim is true, the child should be sent for deliverance through prayer and never through any way of physical torture.

There are people that gather lepers into colonies today. Spending their money and time to take care of these people their relations have cast out to die in the streets. Good. But if they stop at providing only food and shelter for these lepers, have they solved their initial problems? The answer is definitely NO. In addition to providing these lepers with food and shelter, they must provide them with medical attention to take care of the leprosy that made their people cast them out in the first instance.

It is good to rehabilitate children that were tortured, dehumanized and cast out because of accusation of witchcraft. Without finding out whether these accusations are true or not, and then ensuring that the children are properly delivered, providing them food clothing and shelter will only be taking care of one aspect of their problem. The other aspect of the problem that led to their present predicament would have been left totally untouched.

Whether you believe there are witches or not, there are ample testimonies from both adults and children that had once been afflicted with the evil and who had been delivered by the power of prayers that your unbelief does not cut a dice where I am concerned.

And for the educated illiterates that think that all they will ever experience in life is what is contained in their philosophy books, I wish them good luck. I only wish to say that the leaders of many of these pentecostal churches that minister deliverance to witches are more well read and more travelled than most of you out there. They have seen these things real life and they have been involved in ministering delioverances to witches over the years.

I believe we are all agreed that the method of torturing both adults and children suspected of being witches is wrong. I say categorically here that genuine men of God that minister deliverance to witches and wizards do not employ such methods and they charge no kobo.

That is my take on this issue and I owe no one any apologies for that

Thank you.


MK you and your ilks are the ones accusing these kids or suspecting them of being witches.

Therefore it is up to you to prove that they really are witches and not up to us who don't even believe in witchcraft the way you see it to prove anything.

The assistance that is being sought and planned is an all encompassing one including dealing with the physical and pscychological consequencies of their experience.

It is you who have assumed in ignorance that all people are about here is xmas party and adoption even though I don't see what is wrong with that.

Blind followership is dangerous. Please read your bible very well and use the wisdom God gave you to discern things properly yourself.

Anioma777
Nov 24, 2008, 08:19 AM
@Mikky Jagga

And for the educated illiterates that think that all they will ever experience in life is what is contained in their philosophy books, I wish them good luck. I only wish to say that the leaders of many of these pentecostal churches that minister deliverance to witches are more well read and more travelled than most of you out there. They have seen these things real life and they have been involved in ministering delioverances to witches over the years.

Most of these "false Prophets,leaders" you comically refer to as Pentecostal are nothing more than 419 agents with evil sadistic minds and practices. These pentecostal agents of the devil trick fools like you to believe "ANYTHING NEGATIVE THAT HAPPENS IN YOUR LIFE IS AS A RESULT OF SOMEONE ELSE".

In terms of being well travelled and well read...that is nonsense, and in no way qualifies any of them to start "accusing" children or anyone of witchcraft. You describe some of these false prophets as spiritual who made them spiritual. The fact of the matter is that anyone with WORKING BRAIN CELLS would see that these innocent children where used as money making ventures with the DUMB PARENTS used by the so called Church leaders as their customers. Also if I am to believe these children MIGHT be witches and have powers, then why could these same witch children not save themselves. Please don't tell me the power of these 419 pastors saved them. You need to read your bible, but if you had any sense you will realise that you cannot understand everything straight away and its best to leave it that way, because in my opinion the best way to understand the bible is experiencing something in life that relates to what you read. Ever wondered why Jesus spoke in parables?

If you really are a believer in God you should be looking at ways to help those like CRARN and Steppingstonesnigeria, and stop these unfounded nonsense about "are we sure they are not really witches".

What you fail to realise is that when you comdemn these children you also reject God.....

afaukwu
Nov 24, 2008, 08:38 AM
Believe it or not there are witches in Nigeria. Whether these particular kids are witches is, however, a different story I am not prepared to delve into. Infact, I even believe that some of the so-called ''pastor-witch-healers'' inflict witchcraft upon the kids and then turn around to ''heal'' them; all in a bid to milk their unsuspecting parents dry. The last days are here with us. Beware.

Kenn
Nov 24, 2008, 10:43 AM
Mikky Jaga,




While you accused me of not having evidence that any or all of these children are witches, none of you could provide proofs that they are not. It is just what you believe against mine.


Sorry, it is what you believe versus morality, legality and decency. Morally, it is unconscionable to believe an accusation against another without adequate proof. It is worse when such accusations are against children who are by their very nature vulnerable and unable to defend themselves against bullying adults. Legally, he who alleges must prove. An accused is not expected to prove his innocence; rather those who are accusing him and prosecuting him will have to prove his guilt based on the standard of proof required. And, anywhere in the world, even in the meanest bastions of kangaroo justice, there’s no standard of proof that is as low as accepting mere accusation as proof enough for guilt of any crime. Decency demands that you keep quiet or get yourself a little education before jumping in to smear little children.



I believe a child that confesses to being a witch should be investigated by someone more spiritual and if it is found that the claim is true, the child should be sent for deliverance through prayer and never through any way of physical torture.


Yeah, I see your Solomonic wisdom at play again, only this time there’s a butcher-of-reason’s edge to it! Now, Wise One, what constitutes “confession” for the purposes of ascertaining witchcraft? Who does the “investigation”? Who determines that such so-called confessions are indeed true and what are the conditions under which they are to be admitted as such? Who are these persons capable of delivering a child who has confessed and what are the empirical things to look out for before sending them on such supposedly spiritual deliverance? You see, you are as blind as a bat! Why would you give up reason and common sense for the dark world of another’s whims and caprices masquerading as spirituality? Why would you trust the judgment of an investigator, deliverance minister, prophet or prophetess whose only qualification for earning your unalloyed loyalty and trust is that he/she has set up a church milking you from morning till night, pointing out your enemies from within your own home, your own family, your own God-given children? What is the value of a confession extracted from a tortured and abused child? What cowardly heartlessness you exhibit, Mikky Solomon!




There are people that gather lepers into colonies today. Spending their money and time to take care of these people their relations have cast out to die in the streets. Good. But if they stop at providing only food and shelter for these lepers, have they solved their initial problems? The answer is definitely NO. In addition to providing these lepers with food and shelter, they must provide them with medical attention to take care of the leprosy that made their people cast them out in the first instance.


Here you go again calling palm-kernel coconut! Leprosy is diagnosable! It is a physical ailment that can be seen by all and determined to be such! Can you say the same for witchcraft?



It is good to rehabilitate children that were tortured, dehumanized and cast out because of accusation of witchcraft. Without finding out whether these accusations are true or not, and then ensuring that the children are properly delivered, providing them food clothing and shelter will only be taking care of one aspect of their problem. The other aspect of the problem that led to their present predicament would have been left totally untouched.


Yeah, you cure physical child abuse by replacing it with mental child abuse, right? Listen, Mr Socrates, the fact that a child is “tortured, dehumanized and cast out because of accusation of witchcraft” should be enough for any sane and thinking person to know that such a child is not a witch or wizard because if he or she really is, the first thing they’d do is use their witchcraft for self-defence! Or would you have a power to save yourself from possible death and still leave it unused against people bent on killing you? On a serious note, the idea of “finding out whether these accusations are true or not” is a continuation of the emotional torture the child is supposed to be disentangling from. How do you think a traumatized child would feel when you take him or her back to a supposed deliverer or spiritual investigator to find out whether they are truly a witch/wizard or not after surviving the ordeal of torture in the hands of supposed loved ones to get that same information? What do you think a child who has had the idea of him/her being a wizard/witch implanted in his/her brain think when you are ‘investigating’ him/her? The fact is because of their delicate mental make-up, such children could easily snap! What a child in that position needs is trust, not doubts. They will look at you as no better than those who tortured them, because all they’ve asked for all along is trust. By first taking them in, they’d think you trust them; but by investigating them, they’ll know you don’t. Nothing shocks a child worse than the realization than someone they trust betrays them. The most important thing and indeed the crucial thing to do with such children really is first to nurse them back to good physical and mental health. It’s about saving them from the brink, not pushing them over! Taking them back to shady deliverers will lock them further in that mental and psychological rot they are supposedly being saved from.



Whether you believe there are witches or not, there are ample testimonies from both adults and children that had once been afflicted with the evil and who had been delivered by the power of prayers that your unbelief does not cut a dice where I am concerned.


Ample testimonies? Of course, there are testimonies of those who’ve survived evil by God’s intervention, but are you sitting there and accepting all supposed testimonies to be what those who testify say they are? In a country awash with illiteracy and ignorance, are you prepared to accept the diagnosis of brainwashed sufferers telling us this happened to them because of this and so on and so forth? Okay, to cut a long story short, yes, we are Africans and we do realize that belief in the existence of witchcraft is prevalent in our society; but does a belief in the existence of witches give anyone the right to engage in child abuse? The Europeans and Americans also believe in witchcraft; but even in the heydays of witch-burning and the Salem witch-hunt, how many children did they target? How many child witches or wizards did Christ confront?




And for the educated illiterates that think that all they will ever experience in life is what is contained in their philosophy books, I wish them good luck.

You obviously are talking about yourself here, except that in your case, you do not even have philosophy books – just some addled brain cells mimicking life. You are intellectually and spiritually dead!



I only wish to say that the leaders of many of these pentecostal churches that minister deliverance to witches are more well read and more travelled than most of you out there. They have seen these things real life and they have been involved in ministering delioverances to witches over the years.

Yes, that is why our nation has become the most developed and secure place on earth! We see their work! We see their great work, brother!:rolleyes:



I believe we are all agreed that the method of torturing both adults and children suspected of being witches is wrong. I say categorically here that genuine men of God that minister deliverance to witches and wizards do not employ such methods and they charge no kobo.


You have to establish guilt first before talking of method. So, who established that these children are witches and wizards before determining what method to apply to ‘deliver’ them? The point we are making and which is true is that the torture and dehumanization is being employed as a means to establish their guilt and also as a method for ‘curing’ them of the ‘disease’. We have seen ignorant folks and so-called men and women of God apply these shocking methods. Now, since you tell us you speak “categorically”, would you mind giving us the names of those you claim to be “genuine men of God that minister deliverance to witches and wizards” and who do so charging “no kobo” or employing methods we condemn here? Go on, give us their names.



That is my take on this issue and I owe no one any apologies for that


Yes, you may not owe anyone any apologies, but you owe yourself an education and a chance to become truly enlightened!

Ewuro
Nov 24, 2008, 11:54 AM
Kenn1,
I bow to your to your de-construction of a witch-infested Mikky Jagajaga mindset.

VOR
Nov 24, 2008, 12:11 PM
Mikky

I tire for you o! now you are comparing these children to lepers!! what happened to Christian teachings? Your posts here remind me of the story of the Samaritan!!

Take am easy o!

OverLoad
Nov 24, 2008, 01:46 PM
Phewww!!

At times like these...Lord forgive me, I really wish those kids were truly witches so they can destroy those accursed generation of Adults who blame their failure on everything and anything but themselves...
If I was a child-witch I would make sure I wipe out those Adults and the entire village and use my witchcraft to start Nigeria anew with a new set of normal-thinking pple...Nigeria truly needs a good set of Witches to wipe out some of those ppl off the surface of the earth..........this is disheartening.....i dont even know where to begin...!!
If only ....I wish......

Mikky jaga
Nov 24, 2008, 02:01 PM
I do not wish this issue be turned to Mikky jaga issue. Mikky has voiced his own side of the issue. It is only normal that everybody will not see the issue the same way. So, let's leave Mikky out of this because nothing any of you will write will change what Mikky has written there. What I wrote are what I believe with all my heart borne out of experience and only concrete evidence to the contrary can change that. This is what your plenty grammar or abuses can never achieve. So, to each his own.

That said. The only difference I see between children cast out on suspicion of witchcraft and those cast out on suspicion of leprosy is that while one suffers spiritual affliction, the other suffers a physical affliction. While the leper needs a medical attention, the witch needs spiritual attention. If you are ignorant of how witches operate that makes them powerful under certain conditions and so powerless when the conditions change, seek for education and you shall find.

Naming the genuine men of God here is neither here nor there. I have given you some parameters by which you can know them. And by such parameters, those that drive Nails into the heads of children are not men of God.

Please do not worry about Mikky on this thread again, he is so far gone that your plenty words can do him no good/harm at all.

Mikky jaga
Nov 24, 2008, 02:12 PM
The assistance that is being sought and planned is an all encompassing one including dealing with the physical and pscychological consequencies of their experience.



Valteena, you see where we differ!!

Your "all encompassing" assistance deals with "physical and psychological" consequaces. Good.

The assistance I am envisaging is the one that deals with physical, psychological and spiritual consequences. You tried to remove the spiritual consequence or downplay its significance while I aver that it is as important as the other consequences. Unfortunately, spiritual matters are handled spiritually by spiritual men using spiritual means. My point therefore is that your "all encompassing" assistance is not that "all encompassing" once it leaves out the spiritual assistance that the children may need.

That, my fair lady, is where we differ.

Thank you.