The Amish from the Lutheran

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/....html?id=84981

Very interesting, I think I'll visit one day!

[Oluwato]

Now the atheist...http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/....html?id=85300

[Oluwato]

Catholics and Protestants - http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/....html?id=85385

"...InterVarsity's Bear Trap Statement, adopted in 1960 at the national staff conference, specified that sinners are justified "by the Lord Jesus Christ through faith alone." By contrast, the Doctrinal Basis of 2000 said that InterVarsity believes in "justification by God's grace to all who repent and put their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation."
The word alone's shift in placement is significant, said Doug Sweeney, professor of history of Christian thought at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School...."

Hmmmmmmmmm!

[Mikky jaga]

Oluwato, abeg try do some copy and paste from your references. It will help greatly at later dates if the links were removed or got broken.

There were some of your older threads that I tried to follow but could not because the links were no longer working.

[Oluwato]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Oluwato, abeg try do some copy and paste from your references. It will help greatly at later dates if the links were removed or got broken.

There were some of your older threads that I tried to follow but could not because the links were no longer working.

I didn't want to waste bandwidth... for all you know, NVS too may not be here at some point...... about posting full articles, we'll see....maybe, maybe not..., depends.

[Mikky jaga]

Originally Posted by Oluwato

I didn't want to waste bandwidth... for all you know, NVS too may not be here at some point...... about posting full articles, we'll see....maybe, maybe not..., depends.

At least, paste the relevant portions. Those that want to read further can then follow the links.

Now, these Amish people that would not use cars but patronize hospitals even though they will not be doctors themselves, are they not hypocrites?

[Oluwato]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Now, these Amish people that would not use cars but patronize hospitals even though they will not be doctors themselves, are they not hypocrites?

I suggest you call/email them and ask them directly, I am not Amish, I am pentecostal-Messianic. Thank you.

[Mikky jaga]

Originally Posted by Oluwato

I suggest you call/email them and ask them directly, I am not Amish, I am pentecostal-Messianic. Thank you.

And what is that supposed to mean? Why post the link if you are not ready to provide a follow up to the post? You should have allowed an Amish to do the posting, then we can ask some useful questions from such.

Please, do not waste my time like this again.

[Janjaweed]

Originally Posted by Oluwato

... I am not Amish, I am pentecostal-Messianic. Thank you.

@Oluwato,

Just for the records, does the below adequately describe your belief system? If not, can you please indicate where it differs? Thanks.

Beliefs of Messianic Judaism

Most believers would probably accept the definition of a Messianic Jew as "a person who was born Jewish or converted to Judaism, who is a 'genuine believer' in Yeshua [Jesus], and who acknowledges his Jewishness."

"A tenet of Messianic Judaism asserts that when a Jew accepts a Jewish Messiah, born in a Jewish land, who was foretold by Jewish prophets in the Jewish Scriptures, such a Jew does not become a Gentile. In fact, he becomes a completed Jew -- a Jew who believes Jesus is the Messiah."

Those of the "Evangelic" wing of Messianic Judaism hold theological beliefs which are essentially identical to those of Evangelical Christianity, including: G-d as a Trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the virgin birth; sinless life; resurrection; ascension and future second coming, salvation , inerrancy of the Bible, etc.

They believe that their religious practices and beliefs are very similar to that experienced by a 1st century CE Jewish Christian movement (also known as The Way or the Nazarenes). This was one of about two dozen religious movements which were active at the time, including the Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, followers of John the Baptist, Essenes, Gnostics, Herodians, Pauline Christians, etc.

The Jewish Christians was composed of Jewish reformers; their group was founded by Jesus' disciples, lead by James -- the brother of Jesus, -- and largely concentrated in Jerusalem. Historians and theologians differ in their beliefs about the 1st century Jewish Christians: Many religious liberals believe that the Jewish Christians considered themselves to be a reform movement within Judaism. They sacrificed in the Temple, observed all of the Jewish holy days and dietary restrictions, and circumcised their male children. They worshiped G-d as a unity, and viewed Jesus as a human prophet and teacher, not a deity or part of a deity.

Evangelical Christians generally believe that the Christian movement centered in Jerusalem differed little from the Pauline Christians, except that the former circumcised their male children, observed Jewish dietary laws, and worshiped in the Temple. They viewed Jesus as the Son of God, as one personality within the Trinity, as the Messiah, and as their savior.

Messianic Jews generally pattern their beliefs after the Evangelical Christian view of the 1st century Jewish Christians. For this reason, they are generally considered to be Christians by the larger Jewish community.

Some believe that Yeshua will return to earth in the "Second Coming" only when a sufficient number of Jews accept him as their Messiah and Savior. Others believe that Jesus may come at any time.

Practices of Messianic Judaism:
Most Messianic Jews belong to Messianic Jewish congregations or synagogues. However, some follow a Messianic Jewish lifestyle, while attending regular Evangelical Christian churches.

"Over ninety percent of the Messianic congregations in the United States are "charismatic" in their theological orientation (believing in the gifts [charisms] of the Holy Spirit: tongues, healing, etc.)."

Their synagogues are similar in design to other Jewish houses of worship.

Congregations typically call their leader a Rabbi, hold at least part of their service in Hebrew and display the Torah.

A typical congregation will be composed of:

- some Christians who are not Jewish.

- some Messianic Jews who do not practice Jewish customs.
- Torah observant Messianic Jews who follow strict orthodox practices such as Kosher methods of food preparation and eating.
- Jewish members who live a lifestyle between these two extremes.

- They generally observe the weekly Shabbat (Sabbath), starting at sundown on Friday night.
- Many continue the practice of circumcision of male newborns.
- Many Messianic Jews keep the strict rabbinical kosher dietary laws.
- They observe all of the traditional Jewish holidays, such as Passover, Succoth, Shavuot, etc. A few observe Yom Yeshua (the day of Yeshua) on DEC-25.
- The Hebrew Scriptures are referred to as the Tanach (Old Covenant Scriptures). The Christian Scriptures are called the B'rit Chadasha (New Covenant Scriptures).
- They enthusiastically support the nation of Israel.

Source ===>

[Oluwato]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

And what is that supposed to mean? Why post the link

Because I can.

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

if you are not ready to provide a follow up to the post?

I have given you your follow-up, get in touch with them. That you don't like, appreciate or approve of my follow-up answer is your cup of tea, drink it.

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

You should have allowed an Amish to do the posting, then we can ask some useful questions from such.

Too bad it rubs you the wrong way. How would an Amish post the link anyway? It was written by a Lutheran, and an Amish is not supposed to be using the internet...deal with it, I'm not your library or class teacher, don't be lazy, do your own research.

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Please, do not waste my time like this again.

If you had time to waste (in reality, had time not to waste) you would not have stopped by in the first place, learn to stay away from what is not your business and handle your scorn. You expect me to actually tread the path of defining "hypocrisy" from the Amish with you, keep dreaming, you are yet to identify, talkless of define your hypocrisy with Yorubaism as a professed Christian...waste time ko, stop deceiving yourself ni.

[Mikky jaga]

Most believers would probably accept the definition of a Messianic Jew as "a person who was born Jewish or converted to Judaism, who is a 'genuine believer' in Yeshua [Jesus], and who acknowledges her Jewishness."

Janjaweed, please leave Oluwato alone. The day she got converted to her Messianic thing, Yoruba lost a very vibrant lady. What a pity!! I hope she change that name Oluwato to somthing like Ehud Jehudda so the transformation can be complete..

[Oluwato]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Janjaweed, please leave Oluwato alone. The day she got converted to her Messianic thing, Yoruba lost a very vibrant lady. What a pity!! I hope she change that name Oluwato to somthing like Ehud Jehudda so the transformation can be complete..

For the unenlightened... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Jews

[Mikky jaga]

I think I don tell you not to post long links. Me and you go quarrel o.

Ehn en.. from your link above, are you a convert to Judaism or are you still a gentile (Yoruba) who cannot deny Yorubaism. If you are still a Yoruba, then I have to teach you some Odu Ifa that will guide you whenever you are in difficulty in Oyibo country. It is nothing fetish at all, neither does it interfere with your faith.

According to the statement of the Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council regarding Conversion,[47] converts to Judaism do not in any way have a higher status within Messianic Judaism than the Messianic believers who are considered by the UMJC to still be "Gentiles" who are attached to their communities.

[Oluwato]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

I think I don tell you not to post long links. Me and you go quarrel o.

Ehn en.. from your link above, are you a convert to Judaism or are you still a gentile (Yoruba) who cannot deny Yorubaism. If you are still a Yoruba, then I have to teach you some Odu Ifa that will guide you whenever you are in difficulty in Oyibo country. It is nothing fetish at all, neither does it interfere with your faith.

Don't disturb me this morning, you hear, keep your Yorubaism and it's wisdom to your African church or related congregations. You think you know odu ifa, poor you, keep communing with evil spirits, it's obvious who your "Lord" is, one of my grandfathers also did the same... he regretted it till his death bed! You are so deceived thinking it does not interfere with your faith, now you know more than the Holy Spirit Who inspired the Scriptures and commands Christians not to involve themselves with spiritism, divination, sorcery and the like....!

The wisdom of Jesus Christ is sufficient for me, check out my name... Oluwa TO...the Lord is SUFFICIENT and my Lord is YESHUA.

>>>
Messianic Judaism is a religious movement that differs from mainstream Christianity and from Judaism by combining elements of each into a single faith.
Like other Christians, its adherents believe that Jesus of Nazareth, whom they call Yeshua, is the resurrected Messiah and often the Divine Savior.^[1][2][3] Messianic Judaism adds to this some observance of Jewish Law, which is not generally practiced (and often discouraged) in Christian churches.^[4] These observances include observing Jewish Shabbat, abstaining from pork, shellfish, and other foods banned by Jewish law, and observing Jewish holidays. As of 2003, there were at least 150 Messianic synagogues in the U.S. and over 400 worldwide.^[5] By 2008, the number of Messianics in the United States was around a quarter million.^[6] The number of Messianic Jews in Israel is reported to be anywhere between 6,000 and 15,000 members, including the mainly Messianic Jewish village of Yad HaShmona, near Jerusalem.^[7][8]
Although some Messianic Jews are ethnically Jewish, and argue that Messianic Judaism is a sect of Judaism,^[9] the various streams of Judaism are unanimous in their rejection of Messianism as a form of Judaism,^[10][11] and both Christians and Jews consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity.^[12] Messianic belief in the divinity of Jesus is seen by the great majority of Christians and by Judaism as being the defining distinction between Christianity and Judaism.^[10][12][13] This is also the opinion of the Supreme Court of Israel which ruled that the Law of Return should treat ethnically Jewish individuals who convert to Messianic Judaism the same way it treats Jews who convert to Christianity.<<<


I am a Pentecostal Christian who is also Messianic.... plain English...I am a Christian who worships the Jewish way, I worship on Shabbat (Friday sundown - Saturday sundown), I eat biblically clean meats and other foods and I observe the feasts of Adonai! Now, what comes with the territory is the use of the Hebrew language and the knowledge of Hebrew culture and I'm loving the education!


EVERY Christian SHOULD be Messianic, Constantine is to blame for making Christians worship on Sundays which is the day the sun god worshippers worship the sun, but then most Christians don't know Church history so they are clueless as to how they came to where they're at. Some even after finding out don't care anymore since it's been performed for so long. Everyone is welcome to their choice as long as they make it with proper information.


I am Yoruba by birth but not by faith/religion! I was raised in African Christianity and found discrepancies in some of the tenets/practices and what I READ in the bible so I decided to let the Bible HAVE the final say. Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, if you profess Christianity, you are professing faith in a Jew...Jesus Christ was a JEW, He did not call God Olodumare, He called God Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh (YHWH), at some point, I wondered if Oduduwa could not remember YHWH so he made up Olodumare... the ending sort ot rhymes.. anyway, I don't believe in Orunmila, Ifa or Olodumare, I believe in Adonai, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... stop confusing the two, they are NOT the same person!

[Mikky jaga]

I am Yoruba by birth but not by faith/religion!

Same with me

I was raised in African Christianity and found discrepancies in some of the tenets/practices and what I READ in the bible so I decided to let the Bible HAVE the final say.

And there are no discrepancies in Jewish Christianity? Or as the Bible says, Love covereth a multitude of sins?

Whether you want to admit it to yourself or not, if you profess Christianity, you are professing faith in a Jew...Jesus Christ was a JEW,

Jesus Christ was a Jew, but was God the father also a Jew?

He did not call God Olodumare, He called God Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh (YHWH),

He could not have called God Olodumare since he did not speak Yoruba. Only Yoruba people call God Olodumare.

at some point, I wondered if Oduduwa could not remember YHWH so he made up Olodumare... the ending sort ot rhymes..

I have wondered too about some striking similarities between Christianity and Yoruba religion. Some of them are too striking to be mere coincidences.

anyway, I don't believe in Orunmila, Ifa or Olodumare, I believe in Adonai, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... stop confusing the two, they are NOT the same person!

Maybe the difference is the language in which your preference was expressed. Only Hebrews know about Adonai. Yorubas know Olorun Olodumare. Maybe if you dig deeper, you may find out that both are same afterall.

[Oluwato]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Maybe the difference is the language in which your preference was expressed. Only Hebrews know about Adonai. Yorubas know Olorun Olodumare. Maybe if you dig deeper, you may find out that both are same afterall.

Simple history lesson would have prevented this discourse, who came first, Oduduwa or Abraham? Who did God speak to, Oduduwa or Abraham? Feel free to believe whatever you want, as for me and my house, we trust in Adonai! The Shabbat will soon begin and I'm going to prepare . Shalom!

[Mikky jaga]

Originally Posted by Oluwato

Shalom!

I have come to love Shalom especially when it comes from my sister Oluwato. It simply means, I have had enough for now.

So, with all my heart also, I reply: Shalom.