Human Sacrifice

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It is my intention to speak (again) on the long-time practice of human sacrifice in Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and, how this has carried over into the political systems of control that were derived from lines of thought set down by these...

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[superego]

Originally Posted by Namio

Superego,

Who were these people revolting against, what culture and what religion were they trying to abolish?

Human beings. They did 'human sacrifice'! To the greatest proportion. Atheists that is

[DeepThought]

@SuperEgo,
Pls if you have nothing useful to contribute, just leave and stop your threats and blackmail.

Thank you.

[superego]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

@SuperEgo,
Pls if you have nothing useful to contribute, just leave and stop your threats and blackmail.

Thank you.

Repeat yourself.

[superego]

Eja,

The audience waits for you to defend your accusation.

Here's the mic:

[Silent 1]

Originally Posted by superego

That is not true.

The greatest genocides in history were by three individuals. All agnostic/a-religious/anti-religious/Atheists.(aka believers in disbelief)

Joseph Stalin 23 Million!
Mao Zedong 78 Million
and
Adolf Hitler 12 Million!



Together these three killed 1000xs what all religious wars have killed combined.

If one were to concede to those 'facts', does one then concede to your inherent association of the crimes of these 'believers in disbelief' with their disbelief?

Did those deluded maniacs not kill in the name of racial superiority and political ideology? Were there not actively religious people who killed mind boggling numbers of people under same themes.

In any case, what's the point in comparing the statistics of those killed in the name of 'God' to those killed in the name of a disbelief in 'God'?- to show that fewer people have been killed in "God's" name(a very debatable assertion) hence, believers/a believe in 'God' are/is better?

[superego]

@ Silent,

Even though we wish, we are not in Utopia... actually.

War is human nature... unfortunately.

People kill... unfortunately.

People wage wars, some good and some bad.... unfortunately.

People(who may make claim of some religion) kill, sometimes wrongfully... unfortunately.

Many past bloody wars were fought for just a single lady, actually, and I bet ladies aren't to be done with, or do you suggest so?... interestingly.

------------
The issue here today is:

Do Religions kill more .... scratch that. The topic here today is that 'religions intentionally sacrifice humans'.

And the evidence thus far is that irreligious and anti-religious folk have sacrificed humans to genocidal proportions for whatever reason(as irreligious folk) 1000Xs the total all may have ever sacrificed under or claiming to be under the banner of religion.

..and this is so scary considering that self proclaimed areligious folk are such a tiny proportion of humanity, especially those who who have been at such helm of government. Let's keep their numbers low, especially in power....don't you agree?

[Silent 1]

Superego,
'Do religions kill more?'. Yes, they apparently do! Religion kills in the name of religion and by extension in the name of 'God'. Those maniacs did not kill those numbers in the name of their disbelief.

[superego]

Originally Posted by Silent 1

Superego,
'Do religions kill more?'. Yes, they apparently do! Religion kills in the name of religion and by extension in the name of 'God'. Those maniacs did not kill those numbers in the name of their disbelief.

lol

You proposed to describe who kills more, but ended up suggesting why u felt they killed. USA said they killed a million Iraqis cuz of Saddam..or was it WMDs or was it Oil. The US is still there...err... lol 'The Barbarians are coming!'. 'why are they coming?' ... who cares!!!!

There's two banners here- Religion folk and Non religion folk(who actually usually target religion folk).

Of the two, even though one is 1000,000,000,000 xs more predominant and predominant in positions of power than the other.

The Other that is 0.0000000000001 the quantity of the first in power, has had just three of its individuals in positions of power kill 1000xs more for no reason, but racial or religious genocidal extinction plans, than the total combination of all the 1000,000,000,000s of people in power the first has had and still has, all added up!

And that is fact. Choose your reason, choose your style, choose your dressing. That is sad fact.

Mao Zedong
Joseph Stalin
and
Hitler, to mention a few, have defined the grave risk that disbelief in religion and arreligiousness poses humanity. It should be criminal and a prosecutable crime to reject belief, cuz u become a genocidal risk to humanity.

[Mikky jaga]

I have never seen a greater misadventure from Eja as that displayed on this thread. On all counts his attempts to demonize religion has been proved to be shallow and unfounded.

I hope he thinks twice next time before embarking on another futile anti-religion crusade.

[Silent 1]

Superego,
I am sorry, but you still have not offered anything that remotely connects their crimes to their disbelief.

[superego]

Originally Posted by Silent 1

Superego,
I am sorry, but you still have not offered anything that remotely connects their crimes to their disbelief.

Pray, tell us why I need to... don't they speak for themselves?

It's God or man. Those who have God and put God first did 100000xs less than those who don't have God and put man first.

Pray tell us what I need offer...

[Silent 1]

No, they certainly don't speak for themselves and it falls to you to offer a connection. A clear connection not unlike the singular, near absolute complicity of religion in the Crusade, Inquisition and Jihads.

[Eja]

All acts of sacrifice represent a commitment to a desired ideal. We sacrifice time and energy in our labours because we want a better life for ourselves and our dependents. Some women sacrifice their own happiness because they want to create what looks like an ideal home. I am looking, with this submission, at the extreme end of sacrificial acts.

There is nothing a person can do that is as heinous (and unforgivable) as the taking of another human life.

Even when done in self-defence (which is permissible), a man who takes the life of another has put a stain upon his own spirit that can never be erased. Such men are marked forever and, if anyone reading this has ever met those who have killed, he or she will know what I am talking about.

There is a deep vibe (part sadness and part anger) around ones like this that is quite repulsive.

To my knowledge, depending on their other characteristics, the effects of this aura can be subtle - in cases where the killer has great personal charm, one might merely experience a recurring discomfort like that which is felt when some indigestible food object stirs inside the stomach. But in other cases (when the killer does not have the mask of a good personality), the feeling can be as jarring as a blow that bypasses the outer layer of skin and impacts directly inside the gut.

There is a more that I could say about the real consequences of taking another humans life but, I will not because to do so will mean straying into realms that may not be appropriate to discuss here. Suffice it to say, contrary to the doctrines that have sought to justify participation in exercises of aggression that takes lives, there is absolutely no way to wipe clean the soul that has extinguished the Earthly light of another soul.

None.

In other words, when one person is killed, two priceless things are caused to depart with no hope of ever returning. Therefore, while one who has no wish to lose that which can never be recovered will be determined to never take the life the another, he or she must also pray that the situation never arises when this has to be done to protect self or family. Because even though the right to do this cannot be denied, its occurrence still remains (for the 'victor') a tragedy of the greatest magnitude.

In various cultures, the practice of ritually killing humans may have a common root in the desire to ensure the commitment of individuals to a collective ideal by causing them to cross a forbidden boundary. This is most probably the real purpose behind all organised occurrences of this act. The reasons and rationale that followed/follow, like much of the incantations that accompanied the ceremonies, were/are nothing more than ultimately meaningless props.

Props designed to engage the inherent desire for the fantastic in the audience and, to obscure the true shabbiness of what has been embarked upon.

In ancient days, most societies strove for the same ideals that we strive for today. Justice, Liberty, Order, Wealth, Health, etc. were all known by various names and, more importantly, in those days, all of these ideals were personified. In other words, Justice and Liberty for example, were seen as living beings (i.e. deities) and those who sought after them viewed themselves as their worshipers. Likewise, admirable qualities such as Valour were also personified, named as living deities, and worshiped. (It should be noted that individual named gods were also in charge of Wealth and Health.)

At given times, these forms of worship might require adherents to make sacrifices and, while a majority of the lives taken to 'honour' the gods were animal and plant-life, there were some cases where human life was the coin of exchange between the world of man and the realm of the gods.

While there were extreme cases where the person to be sacrificed would be one from the noble castes, such occurrences were very rare. In most instances, the sacrificed persons were foreigners, prisoners/hostages taken in war, wandering strangers who stepped into the wrong place at the wrong time, criminals and, others from the lowliest castes of the society (who had fallen outside the protection of communal bonds).

It is of course important to note, that in all societies that practiced human sacrifice, the corruption of the soul that is a by-product of willingly taking the life of others meant that the rationale given for ritual murders (i.e. pursuit of ideals) was totally bogus.

If we remove the label gods from the above passages and replace each instance with one from the group that includes Order, Democracy, Freedom, Laws, Rights, etc. the reason why I said nothing has changed may become clearer. If we also note that you do not need to stop a person's heart from beating to basically end all hope of a useful life, we will recognise how economic policies that have condemned millions to a life-long destitution is also a form of human sacrifice. Only this time, the 'god' to whom those lives are given is the 'god' the secular have named The Market Economy.

The Abrahamic religions/ideologies are singled out not only because, as previously stated, all still permit human sacrifice as long as it is called something else but, also because the world that we live in today was/is wholly shaped by the interplay of these religions/ideologies. Even what is called "atheism" is a product of the world manufactured by lines of thought that were laid in place by ones who had passed through the schools of these religious ideologies.

If the ability to devise the most effective symbols is the most important skill required by ones who would mold consensus, then being capable of reading the real meanings of symbols is the most vital skill needed by ones who would ensure that their world-view is not manipulated to serve the interests of others.

People world-wide (specifically those living in 'developed' countries) are complicit in ongoing rituals of mass human-sacrifice. The mere fact that these acts are not attended by a priesthood mumbling gibberish over bodies laid out on a slab should not obscure the reality for those who are prepared to look deeper into what is going on.

In fact, once we allow our eyes this mode of looking, we will recognise modern-day incarnations of these 'pagan' priests in the uniformed generals and colonels who plan and justify the cold-blooded slaughter of unarmed thousands, and in the uniformed clergy who either look the other way, obfuscate or, actually quote scripture to justify what is going on.

We will also recognise the true purpose of media talking heads who jubilate at the latest accomplishment of a Predator missile and, politicians and businessmen who, in the name of the god Profit, condemn millions to a slow agonising death by the injection of toxic elements into their living environments.

And we will recognise ourselves as being no different from those 'heathens' who stood around the shrine while the priest cut off the head of a prisoner, a foreigner taken in battle or a criminal, and, who as the blood ran down the altar were told that the god who guarantees justice/order/wealth/health/liberty is satisfied with their (our) offerings.

Human sacrifice, like slavery, has never gone away. It only put on new skins and changed the tone of the incantations that accompanied its rituals.

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

I have never seen a greater misadventure from Eja as that displayed on this thread. On all counts his attempts to demonize religion has been proved to be shallow and unfounded.

I hope he thinks twice next time before embarking on another futile anti-religion crusade.

This is not an attempt to demonize religion.
Its more of an attempt to show that one religion is not superior to another.

1. Its directed at those who are fond of exalting one religion (theirs) and demonizing the other (especially African Traditional religions which they have little or no understanding of).

2. It is also an attempt to get us to re-examine the values of the world order which we seem to have subscribed to. Especially the current empty buzz word (Democracy)

[superego]

@ Eja,

If you believe that killing a murderer or terrorist (Nation) is a bad stain and bad sacrifice. We need not further this debate. keep your opinion. You should have said so earlier. We misunderstood your reference of 'human sacrifice'.

@Deepthot,
You don't create absurdities and manufacture false conspiracies and propaganda to defend possible craziness's in your thing that you possibly condone. Just defend them and leave others out of it...don't u think?

[valteena]

Originally Posted by superego

That is not true.

The greatest genocides in history were by three individuals. All agnostic/a-religious/anti-religious/Atheists.(aka believers in disbelief)

Joseph Stalin 23 Million!
Mao Zedong 78 Million
and
Adolf Hitler 12 Million!



Together these three killed 1000xs what all religious wars have killed combined.

Get ur facts right. Thank me later.

Yeah right Superego please don't try to be smart by half. It is a known fact that Hitler used Christian beliefs, to convince a nation that they were God's Chosen People, and convinced them that they had justification from God and the bible to murder millions of people.

He used fear propaganda to justify the hatred of entire races and groups of people. He used people's fears and reverence in a religious belief, to control them like puppets.

[Namio]

Val,

Thanks, I owe you lunch.

[superego]

Originally Posted by valteena

Yeah right Superego please don't try to be smart by half. It is a known fact that Hitler used Christian beliefs, to convince a nation that they were God's Chosen People, and convinced them that they had justification from God and the bible to murder millions of people.

He used fear propaganda to justify the hatred of entire races and groups of people. He used people's fears and reverence in a religious belief, to control them like puppets.

Yup. The atheist used all he could to get what he wanted. Nothing is sacred for atheists. Little wonder most serial killers are atheists (Fanatical adherents of the religion of disbelief/anti-religionism).

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)
13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

I actually was ready for you, cuz when I post this in fora, peeps always pick on Hitler, who btw, excluded as I mentioned in the video, still the rest two outnumber all killed by so called Religion 10:1 times.

So was Hitler a Muslim....or perhaps a Jew?

[Iye]

Originally Posted by valteena

Yeah right Superego please don't try to be smart by half. It is a known fact that Hitler used Christian beliefs, to convince a nation that they were God's Chosen People, and convinced them that they had justification from God and the bible to murder millions of people.

He used fear propaganda to justify the hatred of entire races and groups of people. He used people's fears and reverence in a religious belief, to control them like puppets.

The bible say…my people perish for lack of knowledge…so who’s fault is it, if you let some lunatic brain wash you to kill in the name of religion…..

[superego]

The fanaticism of anti-religionist Hitler is not very different from that we see here of people like anti-religionist Eja. Their statements are so parallel it's like a freaky reincarnation.

One can only cringe to imagine what Eja will do if he commanded a Nation or army.