Human Sacrifice

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It is my intention to speak (again) on the long-time practice of human sacrifice in Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and, how this has carried over into the political systems of control that were derived from lines of thought set down by these...

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[valteena]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

This is not an attempt to demonize religion.
Its more of an attempt to show that one religion is not superior to another.

1. Its directed at those who are fond of exalting one religion (theirs) and demonizing the other (especially African Traditional religions which they have little or no understanding of).

2. It is also an attempt to get us to re-examine the values of the world order which we seem to have subscribed to. Especially the current empty buzz word (Democracy)

Just to add DeepThought that I have noticed how at every mention of religion the two major religions always assume the term is an exclusive reference to them. Believe it or not the reference to religion is also inclusive of every other group or sect that believe in the existence of a supreme being and Creator from Buddhism, Hinduism to other traditional religious practices.

Originally Posted by superego

So was Hitler a Muslim....or perhaps a Jew?

The above is also meant to address this post of yours Superego

[superego]

So perhaps Hitler was Hindi...or Buddhist....or Zoroastrian? Maybe a Gurumahrajian?

Pray tell...

[valteena]

Originally Posted by hotmama

I don't see where beating was condoned in that verse,however, we have a better covenant than the levitical laws.

This is the reason Christ came


Galatians 3 :27
For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Originally Posted by hotmama

Again the levitical laws served their purposes until God came down as man in the person of Jesus Christ with a better covenant
Read the whole of Galatians 3 and this in particular.


Jesus Christ and his shed blood is the embodiment of the law.
The law could not impart righteousness and at the fullness of time,that Seed which is Christ came and did that fiinal sacrifice.
The levitical laws served their purposes but we now have a more excellent way.

Hotmama my point is that God was meant to have made those very violent pronouncements and laws in the bible and I find it difficult to accept God advocating such extreme violence and barbarism.

In addition, sometimes what comes across from the bible is that God isn't for everyone and if God isn't for everyone then God isn't God, that's basically the way I see it. There is no way for God to abandon his beloved created soul, or advocate the violence described in these verses against them.

That is why someone like myself, who believe in an all-good God, often wonder if that God is the same as the God of the Bible.

And what this brings to the fore for me is how ancient men could limit God. They claimed to truly know God, but their words suggest otherwise. Who were they to know? And what made their word any more valid than ours, especially given their primitive tendencies in such a brutal and confusing age? And so do people today too.

Originally Posted by hotmama

It is good to read the Bible with understanding.
The Bible is more than letters.
The letter kills but the Spirit gives life

The psalmist here after a war with Babylon calls for revenge and says

."

But

Jesus said,

"You have heard that people used to say, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you, Do not fight against *evil. If someone hits you on the right side of your face, let him hit you on the other side also" (Matthew 5:38-39

Revenge is not of God.

Btw I have heard this severally and wondered if it is so why verses from the old testament including the Leviticus is literally used when it suits people's purpose to corroborate points or even the new laws and testament. .

It seems like picking and choosing what and how to translate the bible as a whole to suit held positions or beliefs. Yet same ones are quick to point that discerning the bible needs special grace and go on to boast of being scholarly and informed about how to understand and translate the gospels for you.

[tonsoyo]

This argument is worthless, it has no focus.

[Eja]

Originally Posted by valteena

Hotmama my point is that God was meant to have made those very violent pronouncements and laws in the bible and I find it difficult to accept God advocating such extreme violence and barbarism.

In addition, sometimes what comes across from the bible is that God isn't for everyone and if God isn't for everyone then God isn't God, that's basically the way I see it. There is no way for God to abandon his beloved created soul, or advocate the violence described in these verses against them.

That is why someone like myself, who believe in an all-good God, often wonder if that God is the same as the God of the Bible.

And what this brings to the fore for me is how ancient men could limit God. They claimed to truly know God, but their words suggest otherwise. Who were they to know? And what made their word any more valid than ours, especially given their primitive tendencies in such a brutal and confusing age? And so do people today too.

Btw I have heard this severally and wondered if it is so why verses from the old testament including the Leviticus is literally used when it suits people's purpose to corroborate points or even the new laws and testament. .

It seems like picking and choosing what and how to translate the bible as a whole to suit held positions or beliefs. Yet same ones are quick to point that discerning the bible needs special grace and go on to boast of being scholarly and informed about how to understand and translate the gospels for you.

You have nailed all the peculiar characteristics of bible-worshipers with this post Valteena.

I especially like how you pointed out the way these worshipers of allegedly holy books accept reason when it suits them and, how they reject it when they are unable to bend it to fit with their rigidly set superstitions.

As someone who holds the belief that the Almighty is eternal, omnipresent, and omnipotent, I have always been entertained by attempts made by Christians to identify that "vengeful" and blood-thirsty elemental being from the Old Testament (Yahweh) as being the same God that who is now all of a sudden full of love and nothing else but love. If this is true, then Yahweh (AKA "God" in the Christian New Testament) must have grown up or evolved between the time it took Joshua and his fellow Israelites to commit mass genocides in Canaan at his (Yahweh's) behest and, the time the so-called Jesus of Nazareth (preacher of love, forgiveness, and charity) was born.

If this is so, if "God" did actually evolve, then he is a being like every other - meaning, he had a beginning and will have an end : a condition that is a constant attribute of all beings that evolve.

Meaning that the "God" of the bible is not the eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent Almighty Creator of all that is, was and shall be. He (bible deity) is most probably nothing more than one from the many extremely long-lived (but intrinsically mortal) elemental beings that share the planet with humans and other creatures.

By elemental I of course mean that which is made from either fire, air, earth (soil), or water (solely or combined).

[Eja]

As for Muslims, you all should accept the fact that from the moment your ideological ancestors went from using military force to defend themselves in their homes into launching attacks on peoples who had never stepped an aggressive foot onto their territories (i.e. present-day Arabia), Death joined the ranks of that which Muslims worshiped.

Of course this change in focus was garnished with various rationalisations and, the processes of sacrificing humans from other ethnicities and communities in the name of the worshiped deities was justified by the application of mumbo-jumbo and hypocrisy.

And yes, I said deities because like Christians, Muslims are also polytheists who masquerade as monotheists.

Proof:

• Muslims worship the name of their prophet...I mean, they cannot even mention his name without singing his mighty praises (and how many other deities can boast of such props?).
• Muslims worship the Qua'ran - and this is why they would kill a person for "desecrating it".
• Muslims worship the Black Rock at Mecca and, of course, they also worship Death.

Islam is a polytheistic religion because it has all the qualities found in such religions chief amongst which is the assignation of qualities that mark the divine to objects created by nature and, by man.

Mark that there is nothing wrong with being polytheistic, where the problem arises is when such a religion claims to be monotheistic and then attacks other polytheists for being "heathens".

[Mikky jaga]

Eja, let me help you a little.

The God of the NT is as "blood thirsty" as the God of the OT. It's just that He has decided to do it once and for all this time around. Just imagine how many billions of humans that had ever lived and did not meet his condition for righteousness that He promised to throw into everlasting fire for ever.

That shows He does not change at all. He only uses different methods to suit different occasions.

[Eja]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Eja, let me help you a little.

The God of the NT is as "blood thirsty" as the God of the OT. It's just that He has decided to do it once and for all this time around. Just imagine how many billions of humans that had ever lived and did not meet his condition for righteousness that He promised to throw into everlasting fire for ever.

That shows He does not change at all. He only uses different methods to suit different occasions.

Thank you Mikky. Thank you most of all for the admission that Christians worship a bloodthirsty entity. I hope the rest of your fellow adherents will not crucify you for this piece of honesty....

Anyway, one good turn deserves another.... therefore, let me also render you some assistance as you travel along the path of knowledge...

Below you will find the 42 Divine Principles of Maat. To the Kamau, the female deity Maat was the personification of Justice so, one who toiled in the service of Justice was known as a worshiper of Maat.

These 42 principles were inscribed on temples 1000s of years before the birth of the mythical Abraham and Moses. If you look closely, you will recognise the ten that Moses plagiarised when he wrote the "10 Commandments".

1. I have not done iniquity.
   
2. I have not committed robbery with violence.
   
3. I have done violence to no man.
   
4. I have not committed theft.
   
5. I have not slain man or woman.
   
6. I have not made light the bushel.
   
7. I have not acted deceitfully.
   
8. I have not purloined the things which belonged to the God.
   
9. I have not uttered falsehood.
   
10. I have not carried away food.
    
11. I have not uttered evil words.
    
12. I have not attacked man.
    
13. I have not killed the beasts which are the property of the Gods.
    
14. I have not eaten my heart (i.e., done anything to my regret).
    
15. I have not laid waste ploughed land.
    
16. I Have never pried into matters.
    
17. I have not set my mouth in motion against my man.
    
18. I have not given way to anger concerning myself without cause.
    
19. I have not defiled the wife of a man.
    
20. I have not committed transgression against any part.
    
21. I have not violated sacred times and seasons.
    
22. I have not struck fear into any man.
    
23. I have not been a man of anger.
    
24. I have not made myself deaf to words of right and truth.
    
25. I have not stirred up strife.
    
26. I have made no man weep.
    
27. I have not committed acts of impurity or sodomy.
    
28. I have not eaten my heart.
    
29. I have abused no man.
    
30. i have not acted with violence.
    
31. I have not judged hastily.
    
32. I have not taken vengeance upon the God.
    
33. I not multiplied my speech overmuch.
    
34. I have not acted with deceit, or worked wickedness.
    
35. I have not cursed the king.
    
36. I have not fouled water.
    
37. I have not made haughty my voice.
    
38. I have not cursed the God.
    
39. I have not behaved with insolence.
    
40. I have not sought for distinctions.
    
41. I have not increased my wealth except with such things are are my own possessions.
    
42. I have not thought scorn of the God who is in the city.

The Kamau believed that the deceased were judged in accordance with these principles in the afterlife.

You will note the absence of the externally applied authoritarian style adopted by the 10 Commandments (i.e. Thou shalt/Thou shalt not) - can you recognise the significance of this difference?

What I would appreciate you doing is identifying which of these principles would lead a person to transgress against the conditions you were told "God" set down for the righteous. Also, please tell me if it possible for ones who are practitioners of African Traditional Religions, Buddhists, Shintoists, Hindu, etc. to live righteously.

[Mikky jaga]

Look, there is no point beating about the bush on this issue.

God created humans with the blood you are talking about. If he needs blood, you should know that he should have enough blood bank to last Him till eternity. So, being blood thirsty does not even arise.

That some of the things God commanded Moses were in some other writings does not point to only possible plagiarism but maybe inspiration from some common source, who happens to be the Creator of all.

It has been established in the NT of the Bible, esp the book of Hebrews that the law could not give perfection since nobody could obey the law without faltering. God's standard of passmark is not 99% but 100%.

Since no human could be 100% perfect, this created room for sacrifices of animals for atonement of human sins. In the fullness of time, God revoked the animal sacrifice as insufficient to atone for man's sins and gave Jesus Christ, the only sinless human to ever live to present a sacrifice that would atone for the sins of men once and for all.

So, God now invites you to enter into a contract with Him. He has made the offer, you are to do the acceptance, based on His terms. Yes on His terms! He can do without you, you are the one that cannot do without Him. He holds the carrot and the stick. If you refuse His offer He dumps you in hell with all other rebellious people, no matter how many billions.

Don't joke with God. He is not your mate. Our God is a consuming fire.

Take that.

[Eja]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Look, there is no point beating about the bush on this issue.

God created humans with the blood you are talking about. If he needs blood, you should know that he should have enough blood bank to last Him till eternity. So, being blood thirsty does not even arise.

That some of the things God commanded Moses were in some other writings does not point to only possible plagiarism but maybe inspiration from some common source, who happens to be the Creator of all.

It has been established in the NT of the Bible, esp the book of Hebrews that the law could not give perfection since nobody could obey the law without faltering. God's standard of passmark is not 99% but 100%.

Since no human could be 100% perfect, this created room for sacrifices of animals for atonement of human sins. In the fullness of time, God revoked the animal sacrifice as insufficient to atone for man's sins and gave Jesus Christ, the only sinless human to ever live to present a sacrifice that would atone for the sins of men once and for all.

So, God now invites you to enter into a contract with Him. He has made the offer, you are to do the acceptance, based on His terms. Yes on His terms! He can do without you, you are the one that cannot do without Him. He holds the carrot and the stick. If you refuse His offer He dumps you in hell with all other rebellious people, no matter how many billions.

Don't joke with God. He is not your mate. Our God is a consuming fire.

Take that.

Mikky why do I get the feeling that you are being a false friend to the christianity you claim to be defending? I laughed a bit when I read what you wrote above. I especially like the part where you are basically saying that since your "God" created blood, he is free to drink as much of it as he liked...for eternity....as long as the previous storage units for the blood are ones who did not score "100%" with regards to acceptance of some terms [clarify this please].

What love for he must have for his creations eh? Creatures who, due to the nature they are imbued with by their allegedly all-knowing 'creator', are actually nothing more than a "blood bank"/food storage system.

As for Moses and his "10 Commandments", yes, he did plagiarise it from the 42 Divine Principles of Maat. If you remember, your own scripture tells us that that from childhood, Moses was brought up and educated as a member of the Royal Household of Kemet (AKA Ancient Egypt). This would have meant that he had access to (and was expected to learn by heart) the most important parts of the curriculum that was used to develop members of the elite. The 42 Divine Principles would have been only a part of what he was exposed to as a student.

Therefore, to falsely describe the "10 Commandments" as a direct inspiration from "God" to Moses alone is a lie. As big a lie as I would be telling if after writing a play about two star-crossed lovers from Badagry called "Remi and Juliana", I then not only claimed that the idea came to me direct from my own personal muse, but also refused to acknowledge that I had ever heard of a person called William Shakespeare.

This is the level of falsehood that Abrahamic 'religions' are based upon.

A falsehood that becomes more apparent as we see how even the Jesus myth is not original - how the story, iconography and significance is in fact based on the metaphorein of Ausar, Auset and Heru. Also from Kemet and, widely known throughout the Mediterranean for thousands of years before the birth of the so-called Jesus.

Meanwhile, as several other people have already insightfully pointed out, the 'God' of the scriptures has been showed over and over again to be a toothless bulldog when it comes to punishing those who transgress against oaths taken in his name. This of course is why he is the beloved of all corrupt-minded people. They know that that they can safely do their dirt and call on him as witness. The funniest part is, other Christians/Muslims who are witnessing this inability to deliver justice on Earth will counsel that we wait because 'hell-fire' is awaiting all such sinners. Yet, if the sinner repents at the point of death, all his/her sins will be forgiven....

What a con!! What a way to rape the world around you without fear of repercussions!! What an invitation to carry on feeding blood-thirsty elemental entities...

[Mikky jaga]

Eja,

Creator of blood cannot be described as Blood thirsty. A man that made a pot knows why he made the pot and no pot can query him why he made one for water and another for flower. God that made man knows why and no man can challenge him or ask Him why He decides to do whatever He likes with His creature.

In His infinite knowledge, He has decided on throwing some of His creatures to an everlasting fire. He then told them: If you do what I told you, I will spare you. Those that heed His instruction are regarded as wise, while those that decide to argue with their maker are punished forever.

Very simple, even a small kid can understand it.

[Eja]

Originally Posted by Mikky jaga

Eja,

Creator of blood cannot be described as Blood thirsty. A man that made a pot knows why he made the pot and no pot can query him why he made one for water and another for flower. God that made man knows why and no man can challenge him or ask Him why He decides to do whatever He likes with His creature.

In His infinite knowledge, He has decided on throwing some of His creatures to an everlasting fire. He then told them: If you do what I told you, I will spare you. Those that heed His instruction are regarded as wise, while those that decide to argue with their maker are punished forever.

Very simple, even a small kid can understand it.

Mikky, the 'God' that is served by followers of Abrahamic 'religions' created nothing. Manipulating the consciousness of others through the agency of men (and women) who have no principles is not the same as creating. In other words, what this so-called 'God' does similar to what is done by (as you say) a potter who makes a pot.

Now, while those who find the pot useful may express their gratitude, ones who seek the true source that requires praise will know that the true Creator is the Power that made the soil and the water with which the potter made his pot.

Telling people that a reward awaits 'the righteous' in 'heaven' or, that punishment awaits those who trample on 'children of God' in 'hell' is no different from what a con man running a ponzi scheme does.

Consequences are always deferred and when some succeed materially through hard work and application, they are deceived into giving credit for their achievements to some elemental entity but when others fall, they are told that it is because they did not have enough 'faith'.

Here is another question for you: if success only comes through the 'grace' of your Christian 'God', then how do you account for the millions who through the ages, while practicing other religions, succeed and live long and fulfilled lives?

[Eja]

In the absence of genuine evolutionary precursive agents, certain fundamentals of human nature will remain constant.

It is possible, as one reads the words of officials and citizens below, to imagine what it must have been like to witness some selected sacrificial person been righteously put to death (according to the accepted conventions) before the altar of some god in one of the other 'barbaric' civilizations that preceded this present one.

Sniper John Allen Muhammad refused to utter any last words as he was executed, taking to the grave answers about why and how he plotted the killings of 10 people that terrorized the Washington, D.C., area for three weeks in October 2002.

The 48-year-old died by injection at 9:11 p.m. Tuesday as relatives of the victims watched from behind glass, separated from the rest of the 27 witnesses at Greensville Correctional Center, south of Richmond.

Muhammad stepped into Virginia's death chamber and within minutes was lying on a gurney, tapping his left foot, his arms spread wide with a needle dug into each.

"Mr. Muhammad, do you have any last words?" the warden asked. Muhammad, looking calm and stoic, said nothing.

Meyers' brother, Bob Meyers, said watching the execution was sobering and "surreal." He said other witnesses expressed a range of feelings, including some who were overcome with emotion.

"I would have liked him at some point in the process to take responsibility, to show remorse," Meyers said. "We didn't get any of that tonight."

After the first of the three-drug lethal cocktail was administered, Muhammad blinked repeatedly and took about seven deep breaths. Within a minute, he was motionless.

Nelson Rivera, whose wife, Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, was gunned down as she vacuumed her van at a Maryland gas station, said that when he watched Muhammad's chest moving for the last time, he was glad.

"I feel better. I think I can breathe better," he said. "I'm glad he's gone because he's not going to hurt anyone else."

J. Wyndal Gordon, one of Muhammad's attorneys, described his client in his final hours as fearless and still insisting he was innocent.

"He will die with dignity — dignity to the point of defiance," Gordon said before going inside to watch the execution.

The U.S. Supreme Court turned down Muhammad's final appeal Monday, and Gov. Timothy M. Kaine denied clemency Tuesday.

Muhammad's attorneys had asked Kaine to commute his sentence to life in prison because they said Muhammad was severely mentally ill.

"I think crimes that are this horrible, you just can't understand them, you can't explain them," said Kaine, a Democrat known for carefully considering death penalty cases.

A small group of death penalty opponents gathered on a grassy area near the prison and had a sign reading, "We remember the victims, but not with more killing."

Sonia Hollingsworth-Wills, the mother of Conrad Johnson, the last man slain that October, sat in the back seat of a car outside the prison before the execution, which she chose not to witness. But she said she wanted to be there and was counting the minutes until Muhammad's death.

"It was the most horrifying day of my life," she said. "I'll never get complete closure but at least I can put this behind me."

Cheryll Witz, who's father, Jerry Taylor, was fatally shot on a Tucson, Ariz., golf course in March 2002, said she was unhappy that Muhammad didn't say anything before he died. But she said his execution begins a new chapter in her life.

"I've waited seven long years for this," she said. "My life is totally beginning now. I have all my closure, and my justice and my peace."

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