Tradional Marriage List - Page 3

People ... help oo. My friend has just fainted. He just received the following list from his in-laws for their traditional marriage next year.

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liloldlady · Nov 7, 2009 , 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Austin

Back to East European, nay Russian girls

Oko ashewo

Count1 · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:10 PM

Frankly Lalakokofefe,

this thing has gone beyond tradition. It is now within the realm of greed and exploitation. As Austin said, its not the amount, its the principle behind the demands. The villagers leverage the tradition to 'stock' their homes. This excessive demand is a recent thing that began in the mid-1980s. Lists were not extractive before then. Don't ask me for my source I was there.

The original traditional consideration that cuts across cultures and ethnicities, even Continents, of helping a young couple to begin life on a sound footing is trampled underfoot by those that have brought out their knives to carve up the beached whale.

And once a bride has been 'purchased' so dearly should she still think of herself as an equal partner? She has been bought! She becomes a possession! Where does that stand with all the emancipated feminsts in this village?

Also, remember that people like your friend are in the minority and $3,000 is a lot of money for a young man who is trying to set up home in Nigeria. He still has to do a white wedding etc. The List is avaricious in my humble opinion. And if as someone said, only those who can afford it should get married in such traditions, then I can assure you that such people are facing quick extinction.

The Count

lateesha · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:12 PM

Please the amount is not much.
A man should be able to prove that he can feed and clothe the woman jare

Lalakokofefe · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:26 PM

Count1, i hear you loud and clear.

Lateesha, one question.... if the couple in question were not resident in the US, will the list still be the same? I guess what i am asking is "Is this list typical for the average joe living in naija"?

Count1 · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by lateesha

Please the amount is not much.
A man should be able to prove that he can feed and clothe the woman jare

Lateesha,

not that I have the statistics but I can tell you that there is a demographical study that shows that the Igbo race is in the decline in Nigeria due to

1. High Bride Price making bachelors work till their mid to late 40s before they can marry.
2. Christian Monogamy replacing the traditional polygamy.
3. Child planning replacing the wealth of children and farmhands of yore.

The issue of being able to prove that you can take care of a woman flies in the face of the above. I could go on but I think i have given the main grist for the mill

The Count

lateesha · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lalakokofefe

Count1, i hear you loud and clear.

Lateesha, one question.... if the couple in question were not resident in the US, will the list still be the same? I guess what i am asking is "Is this list typical for the average joe living in naija"?

It depends on what he's doing in Nigeria.
If the groom was an akajiaku (hand with wealth) in Nigeria,the list will be that much but if he were an okada driver,the list will be modified a little bit.
Different lists fror different levels.

Bia lala,something tells me that is the list you received,talk true

lateesha · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Count1

Lateesha,

not that I have the statistics but I can tell you that there is a demographical study that shows that the Igbo race is in the decline in Nigeria due to

1. High Bride Price making bachelors work till their mid to late 40s before they can marry.
2. Christian Monogamy replacing the traditional polygamy.
3. Child planning replacing the wealth of children and farmhands of yore.

The issue of being able to prove that you can take care of a woman flies in the face of the above. I could go on but I think i have given the main grist for the mill

The Count

That is not true at all.
I do agree that Igbo men generally marry later than their SW and northern counterparts,that's my assumption from my observations but there is still a very high procreation rate amongst Igbos.
The average Igbo woman has 5/6 kids.That's a lot of children especially when most can't afford it.

lateesha · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:42 PM

In Mbaise,I hear the lists and dowries are adjusted based on the educational qualification of the girl.
If she was a high school holder,you'll get her for a bargain than if she were say a doctor or a PhD holder

lateesha · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:45 PM

Inlaws from out of area also pay more from what I heard.
My cousin married a man from Ondo state some years back,they came in a large bus and her traditional wedding was the talk of the village.
Story had it that the inlaws bought double of everything they were asked to buy.

sadly they are now divorced

oluomo · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by lateesha

Please the amount is not much.
A man should be able to prove that he can feed and clothe the woman jare

Lateesha baby. Pray tell, how does giving away money proves that you are able to take care of a woman? Given Lil's estimate of £3k, think of how much that could contribute to the children education fund if invested over say 20 years. Two words in my opinion, misplaced priorities.

Bunch17 · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:52 PM

Does the guy get a rebate of 5000 Naira if he kills the goat himself?

Lalakokofefe, I take it that your friend is resident in Nigeria, if not, the in-laws would have demanded US dollars/Euro etc.

Count1 · Nov 7, 2009 , 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by lateesha

That is not true at all.
I do agree that Igbo men generally marry later than their SW and northern counterparts,that's my assumption from my observations but there is still a very high procreation rate amongst Igbos.
The average Igbo woman has 5/6 kids.That's a lot of children especially when most can't afford it.

Lateesha,

merely to flesh out my previous statement and not for the sake of argument. Assuming you are right and the average Igbo woman has 5 - 7 children, how does that compare with the average Hausa muslim who marries four wives in series and each has 5 - 7 children? Same goes for the Yoruba Muslim. Even the Christian Yoruba have Traditional Marriage second and third wives. Most have concubines outside too. And the single girls start having babies from their late teens. If an Igbo girl does not have a husband she will not 'born' outside. Consider that in your demography.

The Count

lateesha · Nov 7, 2009 , 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Count1

Lateesha,

merely to flesh out my previous statement and not for the sake of argument. Assuming you are right and the average Igbo woman has 5 - 7 children, how does that compare with the average Hausa muslim who marries four wives in series and each has 5 - 7 children? Same goes for the Yoruba Muslim. Even the Christian Yoruba have Traditional Marriage second and third wives. Most have concubines outside too. And the single girls start having babies from their late teens. If an Igbo girl does not have a husband she will not 'born' outside. Consider that in your demography.

The Count

Personally Count, I think Igbo is the most populated tribe in Nigeria and I have reasons to think so.
The census is doctored.
I always go back to JAMB statistics because that is the only number they can't doctor.It is what it is.
SE has the highest number that sit for JAMB and the highest number in Nigerian universities and personally I think it is because they also are more in number but that's for another thread.
let's not derail this one.

Lalakokofefe · Nov 7, 2009 , 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Bunch17

Does the guy get a rebate of 5000 Naira if he kills the goat himself?

Lalakokofefe, I take it that your friend is resident in Nigeria, if not, the in-laws would have demanded US dollars/Euro etc.

He and the wife and kids are actually resident in the US. The wife is a US citizen, and he has a green card. Does that factor at all? And they both have very good jobs, combined income in excess of 150K.

Lalakokofefe · Nov 7, 2009 , 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by lateesha

It depends on what he's doing in Nigeria.
If the groom was an akajiaku (hand with wealth) in Nigeria,the list will be that much but if he were an okada driver,the list will be modified a little bit.
Different lists fror different levels.

Bia lala,something tells me that is the list you received,talk true

Me ke? Like i said, i would have jejely given them their daughter back....

valteena · Nov 8, 2009 , 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by liloldlady

The cost of things on that list is under $3000 what is his reason for fainting...
Did he thunk adiagha is free?
He is not buying the Yams in DC...Yam cheap well welll for Ikot-ntongdang.
Even if he strokes....let him get the things jor...He has a wife for life......who will be there even if he needs bib to eat his pureed yam pottage.
She will be there for him come rain come shine....He should stop complaining and cough up.
Hollandais is only $60 for the top top quality one..
Does he know how much it cost to train her in USA alone?

One of the reasons for the list, apart from the trado-spiritual component, is also to make sure that only those who can afford to look after a family, will venture into the institution of marriage.
'Cause anyman who can afford the things on the list......can afford to feed a wife and kids..so the logic goes.

Just to add lil that another reason behind the list and other hassle the man is put through, is that he'll value the wife more and treat her better when he considers what it cost him financially and emotionally to marry her. How effective a deterrent that is, is debatable though.

Balo · Nov 8, 2009 , 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by valteena

Just to add lil that another reason behind the list and other hassle the man is put through, is that he'll value the wife more and treat her better when he considers what it cost him financially and emotionally to marry her. How effective a deterrent that is, is debatable though.

Not effective at all, all na money making business nothing else.

liloldlady · Nov 8, 2009 , 04:44 PM

I come from where, The traditional list is important enough to count as a leading indicator...Of the man's attitude to
a) sharing his resources and spirit of inclusiveness
b)providing for his family both nuclear and extended
c) having some sort of community spirit. Which can entail doing for others when there is no personal gain in sight......
So quibbling with the 'TM' list, would make me wonder if I am marrying a scrooge, Mr bagain mentality himself....or Mr 'I-Me-and-Myself'.
That is how I have been socialised by my culture........A husband who fulfills the list with aplomb, is a good catch...he can feed me and the kids them...It will not be my husband that will ask for change back, or bus money home, just because he came to marry me.

........do you want other women to sing jeering songs at my mother in the market square?

Bia Count1 mind yasef O.....all these your anthropological surveys without data, that you have been offering on Igbo people.....
Do you not know that, over-population is killing us, and you are talking of decline.
Igbo men marry late yes.....The divorce rate is much lower than other tribes... because they go in with a higher level of maturity and with an attitude of 'seen and done it all'.....surely, you don't frown on our low divorce rate do ya?
How many Igbo men have you seen, that are absent, mere sperm donor fathers?
whose baby mamas show up every 30days to box child maintenance outta them?
Traditional list counts for a lot of the subsequent stability we have in Igbo marriages ahbeg.

liloldlady · Nov 8, 2009 , 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Lalakokofefe

He and the wife and kids are actually resident in the US. The wife is a US citizen, and he has a green card. Does that factor at all? And they both have very good jobs, combined income in excess of 150K.

And he is quibbling about that list?
You just made that up.........
I can't believe he fainted because of the equivalent of what he spends on eating out 'a quater'?
...whatdaheck?

valteena · Nov 8, 2009 , 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Balo

Not effective at all, all na money making business nothing else.

That is your view Balo. Like I said it is debatable. But I have seen instances where that rationale has played out as a deterent to the maltreatment of a wife. I have heard someone say (that woman cost me so much, I no dey joke with her). So in my view, even if that in itself is not enough, it, coupled with other factors can impact on how a man values and treat his wife. Especially the typical village man.