Arrest Warrant for Sudanese President - ICC - Page 2

pappilo · Mar 5, 2009 , 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by DaBishop

You go wait till kingdom come...
No let Yeshua wind blow you as we take off for messing with the apple of im eye...
And you don' t have to believe it, a trial will confuse you...ask de janjaweed arabs

I hope this is a joke and not bigotry. As your hadle implies you probably beleive in that propaganda about Israel and chosen one blah blah blah. People beleives this text in the Bible gives them the free will to maim, kill and destroy. I wonder why such discrimination, I as an ordianry xtian cant get away with evil deeds but if I was a jew its all good. People can interprete the Bible anyway they see fit but we all know the difference between good and bad!

I do not support Bashir and would love to see him hang like I,ld love to see other political criminals world over. I just wonder why the ICJ and other so called world bodies are always selective in who they choose to prosecute or 'help'.

DaBishop · Mar 5, 2009 , 02:39 PM

[quote=pappilo;333075]I hope this is a joke and not bigotry. As your hadle implies you probably beleive in that propaganda about Israel and chosen one blah blah blah. People beleives this text in the Bible gives them the free will to maim, kill and destroy. I wonder why such discrimination, I as an ordianry xtian cant get away with evil deeds but if I was a jew its all good. People can interprete the Bible anyway they see fit but we all know the difference between good and bad!

Pray tell sir, what has the very disciplined army of Israel done that incures your wrath?

Even you, who is not God, when you chose a bride (assuming that you are married) or if you will choose a bride, you will not marry all your GFs...only one...who will be the apple of your eye.

...And it is not discrimination, it is for your good...Pray for the peace of Jerusalem as an 'ordinary Christian'(your phrase). It is in your text.

I do not support Bashir and would love to see him hang like I,ld love to see other political criminals world over. I just wonder why the ICJ and other so called world bodies are always selective in who they choose to prosecute or 'help'.

People can interprete the Bible anyway they see fit but we all know the difference between good and bad!

Please enlighten us, Pappilo.

Auspicious · Mar 5, 2009 , 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Odinaka

That mad man called Bashir went too far. After all his excesses in the south (during the more than two-decade long war between his Arabic North and the South), he decided to unleash his criminal activities on Darfurians. Unfortunately for him, the world have become more active in opposing war crimes and crimes against humanity after the errors of Serbia and Rwanda, after the guilt of knowing that their political and other considerations allowed criminals the freedom to murder several thousand civilians in cold blood. It's not as it the crimes Bashir committed in Darfur are worse than what he and his compatriots did in South Sudan (it's a painful fact that even some Darfurians joined their Arab big brothers in making life hell for their southern brothers). The very fact that he accommodated two men earlier charged by the ICC for crimes in Darfur in Sudan, without making any attempt, even if hypocritical, to investigate allegations of crime in Darfur did him in. The fact that he didn't take even a hypocritical step at curtailing the janjaweed which he arms and supports to destroy first the South Sudanese and later Dafurians was his undoing.

It might take a while before he is brought to justice. It might not happen at all. But the burden of that indictment means he will never be the same president of Sudan again, his attempts to remain casual notwithstanding.

I understand the point of those who are saying the indictment shouldn't have come now so as not to jeopardise the peace processes in Darfur and the South. However, history doesn't show that criminals become less evil with concessions. Hitler got some concessions but that didn't stop him from moving ahead with his evil ways. He deserves this indictment.

As for those asking why ICC have to focus on Africa and not the Americans and British, please go ahead with that old, worn out, convenient afro-centric (hate to use the word here) excuse or reasoning until the day your own village or tribe gets decimated like Odi and Zaki Ibiam (this is not saying that the events at those two towns happened because the people asked similar questions or gave similar excuses).

Every dog has it's day.

I read the above and a heaved a sigh of gratitude...

That we have yet another person with similar views.

Well said, Odinaka!

Auspicious.

pappilo · Mar 5, 2009 , 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by DaBishop;333079
[B

Pray tell sir, what has the very disciplined army of Israel done that incures your wrath?

Even you, who is not God, when you chose a bride (assuming that you are married) or if you will choose a bride, you will not marry all your GFs...only one...who will be the apple of your eye.

...And it is not discrimination, it is for your good...Pray for the peace of Jerusalem as an 'ordinary Christian'(your phrase). It is in your text.[/B]

[/COLOR][/B]

I will not engage with you as it is evident that you are a Xtian fanatic and a bigot. Sorry if I come across as rude but I just cant stand fanatics.

I might as well become a jew today and go on a killing spree and not expect to be punished because I am the 'apple of Gods eye' what rubbish. You are no different from the Osama Bin ladens's of this world!

DaBishop · Mar 5, 2009 , 03:09 PM

pappilo; I will not engage with you as it is evident that you are a Xtian fanatic and a bigot. Sorry if I come across as rude but I just cant stand fanatics.

You sometimes write like an educated person, when you are not too condescending. Labels like 'fanatic' and 'bigot' have a way of lowering the argument and excusing the lack of points to defend an espoused position. Even persons such as are so labeled by you can hold views...and when their views are wrong, you can challenge them and show through facts, not labels, that they are wrong.

Sorry if I come across as rude but I just cant stand fanatics.

Persons who are rude and know that they are rude have a problem...I let you figure out what.

I might as well become a jew today and go on a killing spree and not expect to be punished because I am the 'apple of Gods eye' what rubbish. You are no different from the Osama Bin ladens's of this world![/QUOTE]

Besides your labels, I asked you a concrete question that can prove your assertion, you still hide under labels...I ask again, what has the very disciplined army of Isreal done to warrant such bile from a fair minded 'ordinary Christian' who is not a bigot or fanatic?

pappilo · Mar 5, 2009 , 03:17 PM

Admin.

I gbadun this my flag wey jus dey fly under my name. The thing dey make my head swell. Abegi make someone just continue dey hail me so; Pa-ppi-lo, Pa-ppi-lo, Pa-ppi-lo, Pa-ppi-lo, Pa-ppi-lo till fades.............

godfather · Mar 5, 2009 , 04:25 PM

That fool bashir obviously did not see what happened to SADman Hussein.

Miliki Way · Mar 5, 2009 , 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by pappilo

I do not support Bashir and would love to see him hang like I,ld love to see other political criminals world over. I just wonder why the ICJ and other so called world bodies are always selective in who they choose to prosecute or 'help'.

GBAM!!

God bless you, my broda.

chaos.com · Mar 5, 2009 , 06:38 PM

It was the ICC not the ICJ. they are two different bodies. Both are in the hague though.

It is a good move and it shows other african leaders that they are not immune.
As for george bush and the UK if you can find evidence of them sytematically wiping out whole villages with bombs, then i am sure there will be a case for them.
Sending one F15 to attack militias who often have no uniforms, and hide within the civilian population ala Hamas, is hardly a war crime.
Even before fallujah was attacked, there was ample warnings, and days giving civilains time to evacuate.
The janjaweed comes silently and violently, whether you are ready or not.

Odinaka · Mar 5, 2009 , 07:04 PM

Sudan: Darfuri Survivors Welcome ICC Arrest Warrant for Omar al-Bashir

Today the judges at the ICC issued an arrest warrant for Omar Bashir, the President of Sudan, on charges of crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide in Darfur. It is the first time that such a step has been taken against a sitting head of state.

As the ICC judges announced their decision in the Hague, Darfuri survivors were gathered in capital cities across Europe to remember their murdered loved ones and destroyed communities. In London, they gathered for a commemoration outside the Sudanese Embassy from midday to 2.00pm, reading out the names of over a thousand victims and holding a minute’s silence at 1.00pm, the moment the ICC’s decision was announced in the Hague. When the news came through that the ICC had issued the arrest warrant, the crowd erupted with joy.

"Today, for the first time, I feel that just maybe, the people responsible for the murder of my father? Issa?and my brother?Ishag?will eventually be held to account for their actions,” said Darfuri survivor Ibrahim Issa Korkor, responding to the news. “There can never be peace in Darfur without justice. Today is a massive step towards both.”

“Khartoum would like its friends and business partners to think that today’s arrest warrant is a western conspiracy against the Sudanese President and Sudanese state,” says Khatir Mohammed, General Secretary of the Darfur Union. “I assure you it’s not. It’s the result of testimony from countless survivors such as myself, who have seen their families mercilessly killed by Government aircraft, troops and militias. It’s the result of testimony from soldiers and Janjaweed fighters now explaining how they were recruited, paid, armed and directed by the Government to kill their fellow citizens. We ask all governments doing business with Khartoum to stop turning a blind eye to these crimes. Do you want to be tainted by association? Use your influence with Khartoum to bring an end to the violence and injustice in Darfur, and the Sudanese people will thank you.”
Relevant Links

“Today’s decision to issue an arrest warrant for Omar al-Bashir is a landmark step towards ending the impunity of war crimes suspects everywhere. It shows that no-one – even a sitting head of state – is above international law,” says Dr James Smith, Chief Executive of the Aegis Trust. "This warrant should be used to urge Sudanese leaders to change policy - to stop commiting atrocities. If the UN Security Council gives in to threats from Khartoum and suspends the ICC proceedings without a change of policy in Sudan it sends a message that to avoid justice, war criminals need only threaten more atrocities

http://allafrica.com/stories/200903040843.html

Auspicious · Mar 5, 2009 , 07:21 PM

+

I saw the fool, Bashir, yesterday on TV, blabbing nonesense and waving his walking sticking in the air like some local plantation chief, and I hoped that sooner rather than later, he'd to walk into a trap or box himself into a corner, from where (like Charles Taylor) they would transport him to wherever he would be tried for the absolute genocide he helped Arab marauders perfect when he armed and encouraged them by turning a blind eye to the attrocities.

Anyone comparing whatever happend under Omar Bashir's watch in Sudan to that of whetever has happened in the Middle-East or equating it to same is being plain disingenuous or expressing cockeyed sentiments. It is easy to argue that the Isrealis are over-reaching themselves, but I would have loved to see how folks would react, were Beninoise rebels to initiate a relentless campaign of rocket attacks that specifically target schools, homes and othe public places in Badagry, from behind the safety of the homes, churches and schools across the border.

Intolerant, murderous Arab thespians, with the blessing of bastards like Omar Bashar, are charging down upon indigenous Africans from the North of Africa in a second wave of murder and slavery that they perfected many years back, specifically targeting the weakest of humanity -- Mothers, Girls, Young Men and Grown civilian men -- in places like Darfur and other regions of Southern Sudan, and folks simply see another opportunity to lead the usual charge that has been the most convenient means of public recognition for some time now: anti-western blah-di-blah.

At least one side is trying to enforce some semblance of sense and order and respect for human life and rights across the world - unlike what we can say for the Bashir's, the Mugabe's and the rest of them whom others' defend-by-proxy in their no-holds-barred tirade against those who attempt, at least to some extent, to create some air of justice for some. What have the likes of Bashir done for anyone anywhere worthy of emulating by any of us talking here, besides the legacy of genocide and authoritarian mentality that they bequeathe their socities across the world, from Liberia to Congo to Yugoslavia..?

May everyone of them Vampires burn in hell.

Auspicious.

charles4u · Mar 5, 2009 , 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Auspicious

+

I saw the fool, Bashir, yesterday on TV, blabbing nonesense and waving his walking sticking in the air like some local plantation chief, and I hoped that sooner rather than later, he'd to walk into a trap or box himself into a corner, from where (like Charles Taylor) they would transport him to wherever he would be tried for the absolute genocide he helped Arab marauders perfect when he armed and encouraged them by turning a blind eye to the attrocities.

Anyone comparing whatever happend under Omar Bashir's watch in Sudan to that of whetever has happened in the Middle-East or equating it to same is being plain disingenuous or expressing cockeyed sentiments. It is easy to argue that the Isrealis are over-reaching themselves, but I would have loved to see how folks would react, were Beninoise rebels to initiate a relentless campaign of rocket attacks that specifically target schools, homes and othe public places in Badagry, from behind the safety of the homes, churches and schools across the border.

Intolerant, murderous Arab thespians, with the blessing of bastards like Omar Bashar, are charging down upon indigenous Africans from the North of Africa in a second wave of murder and slavery that they perfected many years back, specifically targeting the weakest of humanity -- Mothers, Girls, Young Men and Grown civilian men -- in places like Darfur and other regions of Southern Sudan, and folks simply see another opportunity to lead the usual charge that has been the most convenient means of public recognition for some time now: anti-western blah-di-blah.

At least one side is trying to enforce some semblance of sense and order and respect for human life and rights across the world - unlike what we can say for the Bashir's, the Mugabe's and the rest of them whom others' defend-by-proxy in their no-holds-barred tirade against those who attempt, at least to some extent, to create some air of justice for some. What have the likes of Bashir done for anyone anywhere worthy of emulating by any of us talking here, besides the legacy of genocide and authoritarian mentality that they bequeathe their socities across the world, from Liberia to Congo to Yugoslavia..?

May everyone of them Vampires burn in hell.

Auspicious.

...Bros Auspy I notice you always say the facts, Ok we agree Mr Bashir should be arrested and killed and infact we all want that in the name of justice.

...It is not a matter of compare or no compare, ICC deals with criminality and all criminal cases should be dealt with.. so the point is that, the other crimes like Iranian air plane that was bombed down by US marines and killed innoncent people 259, the case of Isreal which we all know, the other cases in like in Cambodia and so on. Does this cases even though it might be different not warrant an arrest of innocent killings or other criminal assaults ?

...Why when its Africa, they all feel superior and make cases like they are the lord over us ?...........Till today Germany denied some killings and NOBODY could say anything..ofcourse they are all the group owners of ICC.

Miliki Way · Mar 5, 2009 , 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by charles4u

Does this cases even though it might be different not warrant an arrest of innocent killings or other criminal assaults ?

Charles:

Abeg leave Auspy alone, yoo hear?

The 'benevolent' murder of innocent civillians by F16 fighter pilots cannot be equated to the 'extra-judicial' murder of innocent civillians by janjaweeds on horsebacks... even though both actions leave carcasses in their wake. Which is why arrest warrants can be served on one 'leader' who authorized the janjaweeds to carry out ethnic cleansing and waived for the other who authorized an illegal war (against a sovereign nation that poses no threat) and instruct pilots, by proxy, to pull the triggers.

Sodja · Mar 5, 2009 , 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by charles4u

...Why when its Africa, they all feel superior and make cases like they are the lord over us ?...........Till today Germany denied some killings and NOBODY could say anything..ofcourse they are all the group owners of ICC.[/COLOR]

what killings, what are you talking about??

Auspicious · Mar 5, 2009 , 09:24 PM

+

My prayer is that, may we not unwittingly, through word of mouth or actions, work to excercebate already perilious situations of life. It pays for us to learn to put events and circumstances in proper perspectives, so that when we opine about these events and circumstances, and cite them to make our cases anywhere, we come across as well-informed and our express positions can stand credible tests of fairness and balance anywhere.

First, it is plain corrupt (for lack of a more dramatic description), to compare a calculated, systematic and cruel decimation of a particular population of people anywhere over a period of time, to an unfortunate incident that happened at a tense moment in history, when a civilian airliner was errorneously downed by careless or fidgety crewmen as the airliner flew over dangerous waters littered with rival warships and cruisers.

What more, while the United States has not apologized for shooting down that aircraft (probably for reasons that may have to do with exploitation of such apology by the other side), it has gone to the international courts and had been ordered to pay the victims families, which it did, up to the tune of over 60 million dollars. Also, the plane that was downed was passing by just after a recent exchange of fire between Iran and Amerian gun-boats, which may not be unconnected to those guys being fidgety.

The case of Isreal has already been addressed here, and heaven knows, whatever has happened in that part of the world, while we ALL recognize both sides come with their excesses, is NOTHING compared to what the world has witnessed so far in either Sudan, Rwanda, Liberia/Sierra Leone or Yugoslavia for that matter. Unlike all the cases you mentioned, events that have been brought to the international court of justice involved, like I said earlier, systematic decimation of whole populations as opposed to cases of war casualties. In other words, ordinary people were deliberately targeted for extermination as a modus operandi.

If any of us is being ignorant, may God forgive us of our errors (Amen).

Auspicious.

Auspicious · Mar 5, 2009 , 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Miliki Way

Charles:

Abeg leave Auspy alone, yoo hear?

The 'benevolent' murder of innocent civillians by F16 fighter pilots cannot be equated to the 'extra-judicial' murder of innocent civillians by janjaweeds on horsebacks... even though both actions leave carcasses in their wake. Which is why arrest warrants can be served on one 'leader' who authorized the janjaweeds to carry out ethnic cleansing and waived for the other who authorized an illegal war (against a sovereign nation that poses no threat) and instruct pilots, by proxy, to pull the triggers.

All I have to say is this:

Your attempt to put words in my mouth (or to twist my expressed opinion) in an attempt to make a case you can't find the willpower to express on its own.. is worse than ludicrous and I would not dignify such unfortunate attempt with any noteworthy response beyond what I am submitting now.

Auspicious.

Celticologist · Mar 5, 2009 , 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Miliki Way

Charles:

Abeg leave Auspy alone, yoo hear?

The 'benevolent' murder of innocent civillians by F16 fighter pilots cannot be equated to the 'extra-judicial' murder of innocent civillians by janjaweeds on horsebacks... even though both actions leave carcasses in their wake. Which is why arrest warrants can be served on one 'leader' who authorized the janjaweeds to carry out ethnic cleansing and waived for the other who authorized an illegal war (against a sovereign nation that poses no threat) and instruct pilots, by proxy, to pull the triggers.

Drawing a flawed moral equivalence are we.

1. F16 jets did not set out to kill civilians. Janjaweed was out to wipe out some africans, kill, rape, hack to pieces those unable to run!.

2. F16 Pilots don't pull any trigger. They select targets and press buttons that release bombs.

3. It just happened that the US definately had to drive Saddam Hussein out!. Not like such government should be left alone anyways. Iran should be next.

valteena · Mar 5, 2009 , 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Odinaka

Madam, please take note of the nature of the demonstrations. It's coming primarily from his minority Arab clan in the North. Darfurians and South Sudanese won't drop a tear if the criminal is hanged tomorrow. The demonstrations are nothing new. We had pro-Abacha demonstrations. Milesovic, another war criminal, had supports too. Those folks demonstrating are not the people (who are the majority in the whole of Sudan by the way) whose lives have been turned into living hell by Bashir and his demonstrators. The only things you'll hear from a handful of Darfurians or South Sudanese that might sound like an opposition to the arrest warrant are the concerns about the effects on the peace processes. Nothing like support or love for Bashir.

Off course it is expcted that the Dafurians would welcome the ICC's arrest warrant for Omar Bashir like any right thinking human should. But fact remains that the ICC’s action may be thwarted for now due to political dithering and the genuine international worries about possible wider, negative consequences of destabilising Sudan.

Already,Several Arab and African states have object to Bashir's indictment and Khartoum expects the African Union to issue a statement of solidarity, similar to that agreed at its recent Addis Ababa summit. Support is also confidently expected from developing countries in the Group of 77 and from the Arab League and Islamic Conference. So Like you right noted yourself, the ICC's action is unlikely to have much immediate impact in terms of putting Bashir in the dock in The Hague or improving the plight of Darfur's 2.7 million displaced people.

Having said that, I agree with you that The International Criminal Court does have serious implications for political leaders, now in office or past, and not only in Africa, who have ignored human rights and the laws of war in pursuit of contentious, arguably illegal military campaigns

To use the words of Juan Mendez, president of the International Centre for Transitional Justice in New York, "the court made clear that heads of state are not beyond the reach of the law, It is telling the world that government leaders can and should be held accountable for their actions ... We know from history that silence in the face of atrocities does not prevent further crimes."

No Smoking · Mar 5, 2009 , 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by charles4u

Yes they will find a way of putting those African leaders involve too, UK started it and were the main originator of slavery and killings in Nigeria so they should be prosecuted first and we will put other involve also.
...

Abeg, Charlie, yu gets to read some books on slavery. I dey read wan now. Come see da mayhem wey King Ghezo of Dahomey been dey cause for dem olden days.

No just siddon dia dey blame UK for nathin'...

valteena · Mar 5, 2009 , 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Miliki Way

Charles:

Abeg leave Auspy alone, yoo hear?

The 'benevolent' murder of innocent civillians by F16 fighter pilots cannot be equated to the 'extra-judicial' murder of innocent civillians by janjaweeds on horsebacks... even though both actions leave carcasses in their wake. Which is why arrest warrants can be served on one 'leader' who authorized the janjaweeds to carry out ethnic cleansing and waived for the other who authorized an illegal war (against a sovereign nation that poses no threat) and instruct pilots, by proxy, to pull the triggers.

Miliki Way what exactly is you guy's point here. So because leaders and countries like Bush and Isreal are getting away with war crimes, the Sudanese leader should be allowed to continue his campaign of murder, extermination, rape, torture and forcibly transferring large numbers of an ethnic group?.