Would Abiola Have Been a Good President?

[RAYNOSA]

Thank GOD MKO was not made president.Who says June 12 was free and fair,in an ideal society someone like MKO would not have been nominated let alone contesting an election.
Imagine MKO as President
1.There would be no anti-corruption body like EFCC
2.Billions would be wasted to extend ASO ROCK to accomodated his EXX-LARGE FAMILY.
The contributed in bringing NIGERIA to reverse.......SIMPLE

JUNE 12 ko SEPT 11 niiiiiiii

[maxsiollun]

Another pertinent question is whether Nigeria would have been democratic today had June 12 NOT been annulled? Would we have had a pro-democracy struggle without the annulment?

A likely scenario had Abiola been sworn in is that he would have been deposed in a coup, followed by a new round of counter-coups etc for several years. The annulment end the ensuing crisis thoroughly discredited the military and made people sit up and oppose military rule till today.

[omaks]

Originally Posted by RAYNOSA

Thank GOD MKO was not made president.Who says June 12 was free and fair,in an ideal society someone like MKO would not have been nominated let alone contesting an election.
Imagine MKO as President
1.There would be no anti-corruption body like EFCC
2.Billions would be wasted to extend ASO ROCK to accomodated his EXX-LARGE FAMILY.
The contributed in bringing NIGERIA to reverse.......SIMPLE

JUNE 12 ko SEPT 11 niiiiiiii

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong again. Former French President Francois Mitterrand was reputed to have a penchant for beautiful women, and indeed kept a mistress while in Office. Heaven didn't fall down then. Polygamy is a culture tolerated in our society, while in other societies it is legally frowned upon. Let's not continue to display unnecessary hypocricy on this issue. Many Nigerian men and women engage in extra marital affairs at some point in their marrital lives, and only those who are 'caught with their pants down' are used as reference points.

Rather than being a hypocrite and a liar, Abiola was courageous enough, if in the process displaying his weakness to openly show people he loved the polygamous way of life.

I wonder what people would have said had he come out to tell all and sundry that he was GAY.

[emj]

Originally Posted by omaks

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong again. Former French President Francois Mitterrand was reputed to have a penchant for beautiful women, and indeed kept a mistress while in Office. Heaven didn't fall down then. Polygamy is a culture tolerated in our society, while in other societies it is legally frowned upon. Let's not continue to display unnecessary hypocricy on this issue. Many Nigerian men and women engage in extra marital affairs at some point in their marrital lives, and only those who are 'caught with their pants down' are used as reference points.

Rather than being a hypocrite and a liar, Abiola was courageous enough, if in the process displaying his weakness to openly show people he loved the polygamous way of life.

I wonder what people would have said had he come out to tell all and sundry that he was GAY.

Hmmm...omaks, but we've had Gay Presidents
Okay closet gays...no one told the public officially

[Albany]

Originally Posted by omaks

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, Wrong again. Former French President Francois Mitterrand was reputed to have a penchant for beautiful women, and indeed kept a mistress while in Office. Heaven didn't fall down then. Polygamy is a culture tolerated in our society, while in other societies it is legally frowned upon. Let's not continue to display unnecessary hypocricy on this issue. Many Nigerian men and women engage in extra marital affairs at some point in their marrital lives, and only those who are 'caught with their pants down' are used as reference points.

Rather than being a hypocrite and a liar, Abiola was courageous enough, if in the process displaying his weakness to openly show people he loved the polygamous way of life.

I wonder what people would have said had he come out to tell all and sundry that he was GAY.

Omaks,

with the way you are fighting tooth and nail, trying to defend, nay rebrand a bad product, one is tempted to ask if you are a 'Product' of Moshood Abiola 'Polytechnic'.

Is there SOMETHING we should know ?

Originally Posted by maxsiollun

Another pertinent question is whether Nigeria would have been democratic today had June 12 NOT been annulled? Would we have had a pro-democracy struggle without the annulment?

A likely scenario had Abiola been sworn in is that he would have been deposed in a coup, followed by a new round of counter-coups etc for several years. The annulment end the ensuing crisis thoroughly discredited the military and made people sit up and oppose military rule till today.

We would have had the same pro-democracy struggle allbeit a weak one. Mostly as internet warriors like we have today for fear of starvation and loss of human life, just for sheer intimidation from the Northern military army.


The question still remains NO! Abiola could not have won and he would have still been forced to tow the line in the direction of the extremely corrupt Northern military dictators. He would not have stood a chance. Especially with the likes of IBB waiting to do him in. Any puppet the North(owners of Nigeria, sponsored by Dangotes billions) cannot control, will make a quick exit out of office. Still holds true till this day.

From the election results we are told that only about 14 million people voted out of over 80 million then. More people who really saw the futility in such a voting exercise(like myself) stayed at home. What happened to people who protested for the whole world to see? Nothing. Nigerians did not even have the right to fight in court, not to mention on the streets. The timing was wrong and the machinery to ensure free and fair elections were not in place. He still won the elections, but ended up dead!

Either way, he was going to lose. We have chosen to be losers while we keep our lives. That is the only difference between Abiola and the average Nigerian. The military still rules Nigeria, but in agbada. OBJ just removed his khaki and adorned himself with his agbada to fool himself, not the world. He was a military ruler, neither a civilian no a democrat. Yaradua is no better as we can see.

[tonsoyo]

What has happened to our sense of fair judgment? It is even more pathetic that these kind of assessments are coming from a generation that witness the history live. Damn it!

Abiola would have been the best thing to happen to Nigeria as a President. He demonsrated enough as a private individual.

Here are my reasons:

We will have to assess whether he would have been a good President based on how he fared on major problems of Nigeria as a private individual.

TRIBALISM:
No doubt one of the major problems of Nigeria. Abiola was completely detribalized Nigerian, he was one of the few Nigerian elites that can feel at home in any part of the country. He extended his generousity to all parts of the country, evenly. A reason his Muslim/Muslim ticket won the election, he won convincingly accross the country, including the home state of his opponent. He broke all erstwhile seeming barriers of Nigerian politics.

KNOWLEDGE:
Another issue that have plagued Nigeria is clueless leadership. Anybody who has watched Abiola discussed issues on both international and domestic issues would testify to his brilliance, especially those who know him at close quarters.
He understands the dynamics of power in Nigeria, this is why the tiny but murderous military cabal did not want him. He knew too much for comfort.
He would have changed the landscape for good.

COMPASSION:
Our leaders lack compassion, they care very little about the the ordinary man on the street. But with Abiola you do not have to be a 'big man' to be his friend. If you are outstanding in whatever you do, you are Abiola's friend. This is why when Etim Esin and many like him had their problems, he was there to lend a helping hand.

He valued education, many thousands of Nigerians went to school through Abiola's scholarship. When the tertiary institutions were starved of fund, it was Abiola that bankrolled all the higher institutions in Nigeria. When many like him stacked their money in Swiss Banks.

Abiola socialized very with all classes of Nigerian, he was the man you will see attending a Minister's son wedding at Ikoyi in the morning and see attending an apprentice vulcanizer's graduation at Ajegunle the same day. I know people, I have seen him at close quarters.


CORRUPTION:
It is true that Abiola had his own fair share of contract inflation in Nigeria, but how many Nigerian billionaires like him can you point to, who have not taken unfair advantage of the country? What distinguished Abiola is the fact that whatever he took from Nigeria, he paid back in hundred folds, and while other stacked their loots in foreign economy the larger part of his wealth was invested and worked for Nigerians.
He no longer needed to steal money as of time he won the election, he already demonstrated selflessness with his personal wealth beyond any reasonable doubt.

PERSONAL ISSUES - Philandering - We should be able to separate his personal weakness from his managerial and leadership qualities. His culture and his religion allowed him to have as many wives as he could afford to take care of.

It is true that he had many wives but he was Solomonic with handling them, so much that non of the many wives or concubines ever complained about him, he never had serious issue with any of them in public, non of them ever spoke ill of him even in death. That in itself qualified him for Guinness Book of Records.

Some of those criticizing here cannot even handle their one wife.

I agree he had his weaknesses, don't we all do? But he was a unique Nigerian, June 12 and Abiola were tragic losses for Nigeria.

[omaks]

Originally Posted by Albany

Omaks,

with the way you are fighting tooth and nail, trying to defend, nay rebrand a bad product, one is tempted to ask if you are a 'Product' of Moshood Abiola 'Polytechnic'.

Is there SOMETHING we should know ?

Yes Albany, There is something you should know, and this is it. 'We should not give a dog a bad name just because we want to kill it'. Oh, and yes i am a product of Ogun State Polytechnic (As it was Known then), and PROUD to be one. BTW, what has that got to do with the price of GULDER?

Seriously now my good friend Albany, i am not oblivious to the foibles of Abiola, but all i'm saying is some contributors have started sounding hypocritical about MKO's polygamous lifestyle even though it isn't deemed a sin in our society to practice polygamy. Neither NECO (then), and INEC (now) stipulated that practitioners of polygamy stand excluded from contesting for elective office in Nigeria. So what's people's stress with Abiola?

[Albany]

Originally Posted by tonsoyo

It is true that Abiola had his own fair share of contract inflation in Nigeria, but how many Nigerian billionaires like him can you point to, who have not taken unfair advantage of the country?

That is exactly what we are saying: He would have turned out just like (if not worse than) those who came before and after him. So much for love for one's country !

[Dapxin]

Originally Posted by Albany

That is exactly what we are saying: He would have turned out just like (if not worse than) those who came before and after him. So much for love for one's country !

You cant be conclusive on this thing.

And there is a reason everyone says "Isale oro le egbin" for Yorubaland.

The history of the earth is littered with proof; There isnt no way to become a Bill Gates, or a Richard Branson, without starting out with what is in substance / size and and design: FRAUD. Its just the nature of the game.

Where it all gets different, is the sort of pathway you walk with it. And perhaps the existential realities of your environment. see what KGB kids are doing with their money in England (great ol human rights england o) via Chelsea for instance...

Tonsonyo raises interesting posers which are quite compelling.

Compassion, I find most curiously poignant. Clearly, all the crooks we helplessly label leaders fundamentally lack compassion - for themselves;

And Tonsonyo is quite right; To reduce such a hugely popular vote to a certain failure is just plainly childish;

In statistical terms, the guy remains the best President Nigeria never had, for the fact that he was duly elected, whereas mr Awolowo had it all going for him, minus the legitimacy of an actual election declaration.

[omaks]

Originally Posted by Dapxin

In statistical terms, the guy remains the best President Nigeria never had, for the fact that he was duly elected, whereas mr Awolowo had it all going for him, minus the legitimacy of an actual election declaration.

Absolutely spot - on there, Dapxin. When it's all said and done, Abiola had one major quality that most of our current politicians lack (If not all of them, OBJ inclusive), ACCEPTABILITY.

ACCEPTABILITY - Abiola went to the WARD, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, STATE and NATIONAL CONGRESSES of the SDP to seek their mandate to run for President, and won Overwhelmingly. That is what i call the true measure of a National Leader. Not what currently obtains where GOD - FATHERISM and POLITICAL PILFERING is the order of the day. In the election proper he had won 14 states before the annulment was made.That is the true measure of what Abiola represented.

[tonsoyo]

Originally Posted by Albany

That is exactly what we are saying: He would have turned out just like (if not worse than) those who came before and after him. So much for love for one's country !

No brother you are not saying anything. Did you read everything I wrote or you were just hunting for something to quote, albeit out of context?

If Abiola was not rich, he would not have had a chance. So you have to be rich to be a President in Nigeria. How do politicians get rich in Nigeria? How is Abiola different?
How can he be worse, when he has proven to be better than most?

Again Abiola gave back to the country in hundred folds, how can he be worse than those who do not care?

Did you read how Abiola gave money to every higher institution in Nigeria, from his own money? How can he be worse with money that belonged to the public? You are not making any sense brother.

[Albany]

Originally Posted by Dapxin

You cant be conclusive on this thing.

And there is a reason everyone says "Isale oro le egbin" for Yorubaland.

The history of the earth is littered with proof; There isnt no way to become a Bill Gates, or a Richard Branson, without starting out with what is in substance / size and and design: FRAUD. Its just the nature of the game.

Where it all gets different, is the sort of pathway you walk with it. And perhaps the existential realities of your environment. see what KGB kids are doing with their money in England (great ol human rights england o) via Chelsea for instance...

Tonsonyo raises interesting posers which are quite compelling.

Compassion, I find most curiously poignant. Clearly, all the crooks we helplessly label leaders fundamentally lack compassion - for themselves;

And Tonsonyo is quite right; To reduce such a hugely popular vote to a certain failure is just plainly childish;

In statistical terms, the guy remains the best President Nigeria never had, for the fact that he was duly elected, whereas mr Awolowo had it all going for him, minus the legitimacy of an actual election declaration.

I can't believe what i read on this thread. Are you guys for real ? I normaly do not spend so much time discussing hypothetical questions and as a matter of fact, i 'said' it in my very first post on this thread that 'there is no way anyone can comfortably say that Abiola would have been a good President (or not), since he was never sworn in'. whatever anyone says outside of that is mere speculation.

However, SOME of you in support of Abiola have been, at best, ridiculous with your reasons for believing that Abiola would have been a good President. Some say he managed his businesses effectively and won by a wide margin even in Kano. Others say he still provided for his many wives and concubines, his embarrassing promiscuity notwithstanding. And now, the ribcracker: Some say he was corrupt (just like every other Billionaire) but he was generous (with 'stolen' money) and would not steal if he assumed office....and on and on and on. That reminds me of what El-Rufai said about Yar'Adua and corruption:

Yar’Adua’s humble and austere personal lifestyle endeared him to many. He was not considered personally corrupt compared with other Governors. When Nuhu Ribadu, Nigeria’s respected anti-corruption czar and then Chairman of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) announced the names of ‘corrupt governors’, Umaru Yar’Adua was not on the list.


(Note - Nuhu Ribadu said Umaru’s name was initially on the list but he was persuaded to remove it by Lt-Gen Aliyu Mohammed Gusau (not Obasanjo) because “Umaru’s corruption was not personal, and was productive” relative to other venal Governors!).In the end, this piece of omission got Umaru the support of many of us for the presidency.)

In all, i am yet to read a convincing reason that would make me think otherwise. Come on, folks ! You guys can do better.

hahahahahahaha

Wecome to 'area boy' political ideals according to Sanusi Lamido Sanusi.

Where 2 or 3 are gathered in the Name of Adedibu. . . . .Welcome to the wild wild west. . .

May God continue to deliver us from the evils of a nation without moral standards.

Amen!

[tonsoyo]

Originally Posted by Albany

I can't believe what i read on this thread. Are you guys for real ? I normaly do not spend so much time discussing hypothetical questions and as a matter of fact, i 'said' it in my very first post on this thread that 'there is no way anyone can comfortably say that Abiola would have been a good President (or not), since he was never sworn in'. whatever anyone says outside of that is mere speculation.

However, SOME of you in support of Abiola have been, at best, ridiculous with your reasons for believing that Abiola would have been a good President. Some say he managed his businesses effectively and won by a wide margin even in Kano. Others say he still provided for his many wives and concubines, his embarrassing promiscuity notwithstanding. And now, the ribcracker: Some say he was corrupt (just like every other Billionaire) but he was generous (with 'stolen' money) and would not steal if he assumed office....and on and on and on. That reminds me of what El-Rufai said about Yar'Adua and corruption:



In all, i am yet to read a convincing reason that would make me think otherwise. Come on, folks ! You guys can do better.

This is bull.shit Albany. I laid down why I think he would be a good President one by each. Backed up by facts, so do not pretend not to know. You will have to debunk those points one by one to make your own points.

This man was different in all ramifications from most or all Nigerian politicians. How will he not be a good President, when he was over generous with his own money and had a clear understanding of the country from the Military and civilian perspectives.

I still wonder what those who tried to paint him as an agent of the West did with their other eyes, that would have made them see that one of the reasons the West did not support him and actually engineered his death was his Reparation for Africa struggle.

Nigerians sometimes disgust me. For some it is ignorance, for some it is mischief. So soon?

[tonsoyo]

Originally Posted by Simbili

hahahahahahaha

Wecome to 'area boy' political ideals according to Sanusi Lamido Sanusi.

Where 2 or 3 are gathered in the Name of Adedibu. . . . .Welcome to the wild wild west. . .

May God continue to deliver us from the evils of a nation without moral standards.

Amen!

Forget about Lamido Sanusi, make your own point, using your brain, bringing out reasonable argument.
This is arrant and gaseous nonsense.

[omaks]

Originally Posted by Albany

In all, i am yet to read a convincing reason that would make me think otherwise. Come on, folks ! You guys can do better.

You need to respect opposing views, and desist from believeing in only your own views. I personally have said it at the beginning of my contribution on this thread;

Originally Posted by omaks

The fact of the matter is that Nigerians were deprived of that luxury of finding out first hand whether or not he could have delivered the aspirations we all yearned for. All the same, what cannot be denied or taken away from the man is that he believed in a cause and fought for it to the end, paying the untimate price in the end. For that he will always be revvered, in spite of his many imperfections. Rest In Peace MKO.

(My First contribution).

I have consistently maintained that we cannot say one way or the other what side of Abiola would have manifested in the Presidential hot - seat, and i still hold firm to that. Anything else is bodering on CONJECTURE. (i am using this word a second time for emphasis).

So Albany, perhaps you need to chill, and peruse other people's viewpoint as well to see where they are coming from.

[Dapxin]

Originally Posted by Albany

I can't believe what i read on this thread. Are you guys for real ? I normaly do not spend so much time discussing hypothetical questions and as a matter of fact, i 'said' it in my very first post on this thread that 'there is no way anyone can comfortably say that Abiola would have been a good President (or not), since he was never sworn in'. whatever anyone says outside of that is mere speculation.

However, SOME of you in support of Abiola have been, at best, ridiculous with your reasons for believing that Abiola would have been a good President. Some say he managed his businesses effectively and won by a wide margin even in Kano. Others say he still provided for his many wives and concubines, his embarrassing promiscuity notwithstanding. And now, the ribcracker: Some say he was corrupt (just like every other Billionaire) but he was generous (with 'stolen' money) and would not steal if he assumed office....and on and on and on. That reminds me of what El-Rufai said about Yar'Adua and corruption:



In all, i am yet to read a convincing reason that would make me think otherwise. Come on, folks ! You guys can do better.

You agree it was hypothetical. Yet you label viewpoints as ridiculous.

That contradicts!

Once the stage goes into the hypothetical, you must be prepared for the ludicrous, unreal and outright crazy propositions. for there there will never be a scientific way of finding out reality. Or drive viewpoints with progressive facts....

But if the debate is worth taking, then it must be taken with the willingness of a mind, capable of resolving the hypothetical, for the sake of the effort, not for the sake of what is proven or not.

Try to dissociate emotion, and play the hypotethical for the sake of it; Most commentators on this thread already agreed, we will never know. is the surest answer to the thread-question.

[Albany]

Originally Posted by Dapxin

You agree it was hypothetical. Yet you label viewpoints as ridiculous.

That contradicts!

Once the stage goes into the hypothetical, you must be prepared for the ludicrous, unreal and outright crazy propositions. for there there will never be a scientific way of finding out reality. Or drive viewpoints with progressive facts....

But if the debate is worth taking, then it must be taken with the willingness of a mind, capable of resolving the hypothetical, for the sake of the effort, not for the sake of what is proven or not.

Try to dissociate emotion, and play the hypotethical for the sake of it; Most commentators on this thread already agreed, we will never know. is the surest answer to the thread-question.

I wonder what makes you believe that an answer to a hypothetical question could not ridiculous. If i asked you, for instance, how many children you would have had if you were a woman and you answered, say, 80. That would be a ridiculous number, wouldn't it ?

It was funny to read stuff like: Abiola won a landslide and did not hide the fact that he loved women etc, as reasons for some folks to believe that he would have been a good president. As in since he was able to win all over the country, he must be a good president. Can you beat that ? Where is the correlation ? Ehm, he was corrupt but he still cared for people and was making huge personal donations to universities. As though Odili, Ibori and the rest of them do not care for people too. I hope you get my drift. Those points did not just make sense.
BTW, i like your quote below and with that i rest my case for now.

Once the stage goes into the hypothetical, you must be prepared for the ludicrous, unreal and outright crazy propositions. for there there will never be a scientific way of finding out reality. Or drive viewpoints with progressive facts....

[Dapxin]

I wonder what makes you believe that an answer to a hypothetical question could not ridiculous. If i asked you, for instance, how many children you would have had if you were a woman and you answered, say, 80. That would be a ridiculous number, wouldn't it ?

For the purpose of a hypothetical discussion, that is not ridiculous; You ask a 5year old.

I would imagine, we are tempted to find that ridiculous because medical evidence so far would think thats impossible. In the same vein, it would be unimaginable to say a woman would have 14kids at a swoop 20years ago;

Lets not even turn this into unncessary semantics; There are a thousand and 1 reasons Abiola may fail; There was the obvious, and there was the subtle.

What we shouldn't do is discredit the huge wave of wholesome democracy on which his election was conducted. I still remember my late grandma singing

"MKO, Paracetamol ooooooo" in a mashed up poor-woman's rendition of the then SDP TV adverts.

Its not like the premise of the campaign is entirely faultless; But he had what OBJ and all the rest of them never had; A truly Nigerian ticket!