Swiss court release loot to Mobutu Sese Seko family.

[Namio]

DR Congo criticises Mobutu ruling

The Democratic Republic of Congo has criticised a Swiss court's decision to release the assets of its late ex-leader Mobutu Sese Seko to his family.

Information Minister Lambert Mende told the BBC that Switzerland had not done enough to ensure the money was given back to the people of DR Congo.

He said his country could not appeal against the decision because the legal process had ended.

More than $6m (£3.7m) frozen in Swiss bank accounts is being released.

Mobutu, who died in 1997, governed what was then known as Zaire for 32 years after taking power in a coup and was accused of embezzling billions of dollars of government money.

On Tuesday, the Swiss court ruled that the assets should be returned to his family, rejecting a bid to extend a freeze on them.

Switzerland had repeatedly blocked the release of the funds, said to have been gained illegally.

The court ruled that the DR Congo had waited too long to seek the return of the money.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...ca/8151959.stm

Published: 2009/07/15 12:53:47 GMT

© BBC MMIX

[DeepThought]

Switzerland had repeatedly blocked the release of the funds, said to have been gained illegally.

The court ruled that the DR Congo had waited too long to seek the return of the money.

Classic.



I just can't help but admire the effontry and "appreciate" sheer contempt this Oyinbo people have for us.

Oh well...

We know what the natural consequences of centuries of contempt and mistreatment is.

We'll wait and see.

Maybe another 20 to 40 years from now,( after enduring and suffering for over hundereds of years, at the hands of people who enable the Mobutus of this world) when they have forgotten all this and then somebodywith a Black face tosses a bomb at a Swiss embassy somewhere, they'll all why and then start to cry terrorism.

[Miliki Way]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

Classic.



I just can't help but admire the effontry and "appreciate" sheer contempt this Oyinbo people have for us.

Oh well...

We know what the natural consequences of centuries of contempt and mistreatment is.

We'll wait and see.

Maybe another 20 to 40 years from now,( after enduring and suffering for over hundereds of years, at the hands of people who enable the Mobutus of this world) when they have forgotten all this and then somebodywith a Black face tosses a bomb at a Swiss embassy somewhere, they'll all why and then start to cry terrorism.

Abi o. Imagine the effontery! Imagine the fraud!

After collecting billions of $$ from that thief, they are just now returning ordinary $6million!

Una see wetin Europeans dey do to Africans?

Need any more proof that Switzerland is the MOST CORRUPT country in the world?

[valteena]

No it is an African problem that only Africans should solve themselves. No aiding and manipulative external influence lol.

[I Love Nigeria]

Swiss Banks: Demands By America & Nigeria

Wednesday, 13 May 2009


http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/...a-nigeria.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

And more to my point, in all of these. Nigeria during President Olusegun Obasanjo's administration, vigorously pursued loot retrieval and repatriation as a national policy. This have meant a vigorous and prodigious pursuit of Nigerian assets and resources,in banks and other financial institutions in America and Europe, places, where looters have lodged such assets and resources. Nigeria expended money, huge amounts of money and energy,battling foreign banks and governments, in efforts to retrieve these loots. Foreign banks and governments, fought Nigeria's efforts, every step, after another step of the way

It is common knowledge, that these loots are more often than not, siphoned into these offshore safe havens outside of Africa. There are therefore questions that arise; why would these angels in Switzerland, Europe and North America act as safe havens for the lucifers of Africa? Why would the incorruptible and decent people, savor being bankers for rogues,monsters and agents of death and peddlers of misery? Why would decent peoples and decent governments of Europe act in cahoots with looters by providing safe havens and succor to those who loot with impunity and without remorse? Why would these same peoples and governments turn around to loudly proclaim their detest of corruption and agents of corruption from our shores?

What exactly shall we call any citizen, institution and or government which protects and shields stolen property? An accomplice and an accessory after the fact,with complete complicity and duplicity with the perpetrator or principal.


The federal government of the United States, is currently negotiating modalities for unravelling the tax evasion crimes allegedly committed by some 52,000 American citizens through offshore banking which they conducted with banks and financial institutions in Switzerland.

The current development above, is in addition to, actions taken by the governments and financial institutions in Europe and North America, shortly after the attacks on America on September 11, 2001. Actions which were rapid, speedy and swift.

These collection of actions culminated in the freezing and embargoeing of any money and or, other financial instruments connected to anyone from the Middle East or anyone of Arab descent, who was considered a real or an imagined terrorist.

At that time, it did not even matter whether the persons or institutions so suspected, were in fact connected to terrorist acts or whether they were contemplating and or in any conspiracy to commit terrorism. A mere suspicious, a mere allegation, a mere connection to some persons or charity, no matter how remote or tenuous,such, was considered by the George W. Bush government to be sufficient excuse, to freeze and embargo accounts, and, arrest and detain, even without trial, persons that have been,as such, suspected or accused, rightly or wrongly.

The Bush government's rationale was spelt out and pursued, premised on a mantra of, you either with America in the fight against terror, or your are against America. Mr. Bush pointedly stated that America would visit unpleasantness on anyone, organization or country that harbored persons suspected of terrorism or harbored resources for suspected terrorists.

Countries around the world, and in particular, Europe and the Americas, complied speedily. Banks and financial institutions were falling over one, after the other, to comply with Mr. Bush's government's demands across the board. This development was in of itself, not necessarily an evil one;Except of course for this one detail. Which is this. Prior to September 11, 2001,Transparency International and the rest of the world, cried to high heavens regarding the looting of public treasuries with impunity, looting and pillaging by government officials, elected or appointed, including those who usurped political power through barrell of the gun military coup or putsch.

[WayoGuy]

This is a serious breach of duty on the part of the Congolese authorities and their lawyers. I blame DR Congo, period.

Only two days ago (Monday July 13) U.S. Justice Department lawyers were set to get into a legal fight in an American courtroom with a Swiss bank called UBS. UBS is the largest private bank in the world. Guess what the fight was about? United States had demanded that the bank produce a list of all the U.S. citizens who have stashed their money in the Swiss bank to avoid paying due taxes.

And guess what happened the day before the hearing (Sunday July 12)? The Swiss Bank, scared to hell, on Sunday, filed a motion jointly with the prosecutors to delay the hearing and allow them to settle the case out of court; apparently they will provide the names. Judge Alan Gold delayed the hearing until August to allow the settlement deal to be negotiated.

Already the Swiss bank has agreed to pay U.S. IRS $780 million in civil damages for its violation of U.S. laws by taking the money and hiding it from the U.S. government.

Do you think that the Democratic Republic of Congo, just because it is an African country cannot bring a Swiss bank into its court and force it to release the money or, at the very least, names of the lawbreakers who aided the president in stealing the money? Do you think the DR Congo cannot make the bank pay fines too? Where were the lawyers and government of Congo? Did they even try to file the case in Congo?

Does any lawyer or non-lawyer have ideas? Is anybody listening?

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by WayoGuy

This is a serious breach of duty on the part of the Congolese authorities and their lawyers. I blame DR Congo, period.fficeffice" />>>
>>
Only two days ago (Monday July 13) U.S. Justice Department lawyers were set to get into a legal fight in an American courtroom with a Swiss bank called UBS. UBS is the largest private bank in the world. Guess what the fight was about? ffice:smarttags" />United States had demanded that the bank produce a list of all the lace u2:st="on">lace w:st="on">U.S.lace>lace> citizens who have stashed their money in the Swiss bank to avoid paying due taxes.>>
>>
And guess what happened the day before the hearing (Sunday July 12)? The Swiss Bank, scared to hell, on Sunday, filed a motion jointly with the prosecutors to delay the hearing and allow them to settle the case out of court; apparently they will provide the names. Judge Alan Gold delayed the hearing until August to allow the settlement deal to be negotiated. >>
>>
Already the Swiss bank has agreed to pay U.S. IRS $780 million in civil damages for its violation of U.S. laws by taking the money and hiding it from the lace u2:st="on">lace w:st="on">U.S.lace>lace> government.>>
>>
Do you think that the Democratic Republic of Congo, just because it is an African country cannot bring a Swiss bank into its court and force it to release the money or, at the very least, names of the lawbreakers who aided the president in stealing the money? Do you think the DR Congo cannot make the bank pay fines too? Where were the lawyers and government of lace w:st="on">Congolace>? Did they even try to file the case in Congo?>>
>>
Does any lawyer or non-lawyer have ideas? Is anybody listening? >>
>>

Wayo:
Thank you Ojare my broda.

Yes, its obviously the fault of those powerful Congolese (with their world threatening fleet of charcoal powered nuclear subs/canoes/kites , coupled with their control of the world's financial/economic instruments with which they can economically strangulate entire continents, talk less of a single country.)
This is what I love about black people. Somebody spits on your mama and of course we rush to accept the blame and exenorate the spitter (So long as he/she is white)

[WayoGuy]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

Wayo:
Thank you Ojare my broda.

Yes, its obviously the fault of those powerful Congolese (with their world threatening fleet of charcoal powered nuclear subs/canoes/kites , coupled with their control of the world's financial/economic instruments with which they can economically strangulate entire continents, talk less of a single country.)
This is what I love about black people. Somebody spits on your mama and of course we rush to accept the blame and exenorate the spitter (So long as he/she is white) :D

Nna, DeepThought, I get your angle. Don't beat me up too much.

But if a tiger comes to strangle me, I will expect you to blame me if I just stay there and play dead as the tiger devours me. It is the nature of tigers to devour and the natural law of preservation for me to strenously defend myself.

The Congolese, in my opinion, failed the test of self-preservation. That's why I blame them. Not that I do not recognize the evil nature of the beast that came after them. I blame my brothers for not standing up for themselves.

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by WayoGuy

Nna, DeepThought, I get your angle. Don't beat me up too much.

But if a tiger comes to strangle me, I will expect you to blame me if I just stay there and play dead as the tiger devours me. It is the nature of tigers to devour and the natural law of preservation for me to strenously defend myself.

The Congolese, in my opinion, failed the test of self-preservation. That's why I blame them. Not that I do not recognize the evil nature of the beast that came after them. I blame my brothers for not standing up for themselves.

Me? Beat?
Me ai no dey fight O! And I will prove this by killing anyone who says otherwise.

O.K, sorry a beg no vex, I get your point too.
In which case, its not just the Congolese that are failing the test of self preservation. Its all of Black Africa. Thing is we're going about (when we even half heartedly try) this in the wrong way.


Anyway, its as if the world has looked into the future and seen our extinction. //And our own satisfaction with that outcome// That to me is the only explanation for the utter contempt.

[DeepThought]

ILN,
That thank you was sacarstic O. Just so you know.

I suppose its better than abusing you. But if I ever meet you in real life, count on a serious beating sha. Yes O, i will gladly do the jail time. O.K that was a joke.

...But if I catch you sha....

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by WayoGuy

This is a serious breach of duty on the part of the Congolese authorities and their lawyers. I blame DR Congo, period.fficeffice" />>>
>>
Only two days ago (Monday July 13) U.S. Justice Department lawyers were set to get into a legal fight in an American courtroom with a Swiss bank called UBS. UBS is the largest private bank in the world. Guess what the fight was about? ffice:smarttags" />United States had demanded that the bank produce a list of all the lace u2:st="on">lace w:st="on">U.S.lace>lace> citizens who have stashed their money in the Swiss bank to avoid paying due taxes.>>
>>
And guess what happened the day before the hearing (Sunday July 12)? The Swiss Bank, scared to hell, on Sunday, filed a motion jointly with the prosecutors to delay the hearing and allow them to settle the case out of court; apparently they will provide the names. Judge Alan Gold delayed the hearing until August to allow the settlement deal to be negotiated. >>
>>
Already the Swiss bank has agreed to pay U.S. IRS $780 million in civil damages for its violation of U.S. laws by taking the money and hiding it from the lace u2:st="on">lace w:st="on">U.S.lace>lace> government.>>
>>
Do you think that the Democratic Republic of Congo, just because it is an African country cannot bring a Swiss bank into its court and force it to release the money or, at the very least, names of the lawbreakers who aided the president in stealing the money? Do you think the DR Congo cannot make the bank pay fines too? Where were the lawyers and government of lace w:st="on">Congolace>? Did they even try to file the case in Congo?>>
>>
Does any lawyer or non-lawyer have ideas? Is anybody listening? >>
>>

Thank You.

Mugus will always be trampled like Mugus as long as they act like Mugus.

Of course, some Mugus will always cry after the Fact.

AS I HEARD FROM THE 'GRAPE-VINE' IT GOES SOMETHING LIKE:

Booo-hoo-hoo-hoooooo!

Hnwaaahn-han-han-haaaaaan!

Because I was looking like Lucozade..boo-hooooo!

You walked rough-shod all over me like a used Lucozade borrule..nwaaah!

Wo aye mi l'ode oooh, ah! See what you did to my life..Nwaaahn-haan-han-haaaan!

I say see how you messed-up my life when I was looking like a Lucozade!

Is it my fault that I am a Mugu? Is it my fault that I bent over to be fucked real good?

When I dropped my pants and bent over, did I axe to be fcuked?

Boooo-hoo-hoo-hoooooo! E W'AYE MI L'ODE OOOOO, HAEEEEE!

See my life ooo, I SAY SEE MY LIFE! Hnwaaaaahn-wah!

{Rolling and Grovelling on the Ground and Banging Head on Ground}

I will die oooo! I will kill myself Oooooo! This injustice is too mush!

Why can't I drop my pants and bend-over jejelly without risking getting fcuked rough?

Ehn?

Is this life? Why?

When I take my nyansh do sign-board, say make dem nack me..

IT SURE DIDN'T MEAN I WANTED TO BE FCUKED!!!!

Look, I will cry and caterwaul till you Capitulate!

I will scare you to obey my wishes with my rivers of tears!

You better refurbish my nyansh or I will not wear my pah-int again!

Booooooh-hoo-hoo-hooooo! Nhwaaaanh-han-han-haaaaaaaaaaaahn!

Why? Why????!!!!!???? Why can't I drop my pants and bend-over in peace?

{AND THE WAILING CONTINUES TILL FADE..}

Auspicious.

[Albany]

Originally Posted by WayoGuy

This is a serious breach of duty on the part of the Congolese authorities and their lawyers. I blame DR Congo, period.fficeffice" />>>
>>
Only two days ago (Monday July 13) U.S. Justice Department lawyers were set to get into a legal fight in an American courtroom with a Swiss bank called UBS. UBS is the largest private bank in the world. Guess what the fight was about? ffice:smarttags" />United States had demanded that the bank produce a list of all the lace u2:st="on">lace w:st="on">U.S.lace>lace> citizens who have stashed their money in the Swiss bank to avoid paying due taxes.>>
>>
And guess what happened the day before the hearing (Sunday July 12)? The Swiss Bank, scared to hell, on Sunday, filed a motion jointly with the prosecutors to delay the hearing and allow them to settle the case out of court; apparently they will provide the names. Judge Alan Gold delayed the hearing until August to allow the settlement deal to be negotiated. >>
>>
Already the Swiss bank has agreed to pay U.S. IRS $780 million in civil damages for its violation of U.S. laws by taking the money and hiding it from the lace u2:st="on">lace w:st="on">U.S.lace>lace> government.>>
>>
Do you think that the Democratic Republic of Congo, just because it is an African country cannot bring a Swiss bank into its court and force it to release the money or, at the very least, names of the lawbreakers who aided the president in stealing the money? Do you think the DR Congo cannot make the bank pay fines too? Where were the lawyers and government of lace w:st="on">Congolace>? Did they even try to file the case in Congo?>>
>>
Does any lawyer or non-lawyer have ideas? Is anybody listening? >>
>>

Wayoguy,

Just in case you have forgotten, the swiss banking system is shrouded in so much secrecy and i can assure you that there is little or nothing the Congolese people can do to retrieve their stolen wealth stashed in those banks, without the cooperation of Swiss Banks/government. For you to be able to fight for the repatriation of such stolen funds in any court of law, you need to have the details of the stolen amount, the people involved, the dates and the channels through which they were stolen in the first place. This is where the hands of the Congolese would be tied. Even while Obasanjo was fighting to get Abacha's stolen money back, it was the Swiss government that was telling us how much of Abacha's moneys were in their banks ? Again, is it not an insult that the condition for releasing Abach's loot was that the Swiss government would monitor its disbursement in Nigeria ? In Switzerland, UBS and Credit Suisse are like national monuments and whosoever picks a 'fight' with them, has the Swiss Government to contend with.
Very few countries of the world can get to bend UBS and other Swiss banks the way America did and, for now, no African country has got the economic clout to 'fight' them.
The Congolese people can only get what the Swiss want to give them. That is the bitter truth.

[liloldlady]

Part of the strategy, that Josef Kabila used to assume and consolidate power after the assasination of his father (Laurent), was to employ the help of Mobutu's men.
This meant that he could therefore, not pursue the loot by Mobutu and his men in the swiss finacial nooks and cranies, Which would have meant offending his powerful allies.
By the time a new regime, who were not hampered by past deals came to power, the statute of limitation, meant there was nothing they could do.
Hence the courts are left with no option but to return the money to Mobutus family, since the appropriate time for DRC to prove the money belonged to them had lapsed.

[WayoGuy]

Originally Posted by Albany

Wayoguy,

Just in case you have forgotten, the swiss banking system is shrouded in so much secrecy and i can assure you that there is little or nothing the Congolese people can do to retrieve their stolen wealth stashed in those banks, without the cooperation of Swiss Banks/government. For you to be able to fight for the repatriation of such stolen funds in any court of law, you need to have the details of the stolen amount, the people involved, the dates and the channels through which they were stolen in the first place. This is where the hands of the Congolese would be tied. Even while Obasanjo was fighting to get Abacha's stolen money back, it was the Swiss government that was telling us how much of Abacha's moneys were in their banks ? Again, is it not an insult that the condition for releasing Abach's loot was that the Swiss government would monitor its disbursement in Nigeria ? In Switzerland, UBS and Credit Suisse are like national monuments and whosoever picks a 'fight' with them, has the Swiss Government to contend with.
Very few countries of the world can get to bend UBS and other Swiss banks the way America did and, for now, no African country has got the economic clout to 'fight' them.
The Congolese people can only get what the Swiss want to give them. That is the bitter truth.

Albany,

I hear you loud and clear.

I agree that the obstacles for the Congolese were huge, considering the resources of the Swiss bank and possible involvement of the Swiss government.

But, my brother, legal maneuvering between lawyers involves more than financial and political powers. Resourceful and clever lawyers outmaneuver big banks and government lawyers daily. Such a clever lawyer would have seen several legal options open to the Congolese.

Here is one of those options, which would have been easy and inexpensive: they should have filed a lawsuit in Congo against the specific Swiss bank involved. Given the condescending air with which the Swiss bankers treat our people, the bank would likely ignore such lawsuit. Then the Congolese court would issue a default judgment against the bank. (Even if the bank actually appeared in the court, the Congolese judge (wink) would still issue a quick judgment against the bank).

At this stage, if I read the Swiss correctly, they would ignore the judgment too and refuse to pay. Fine. This is when the real battle starts.

The Congolese would then file a certified copy of the judgment in the appropriate federal court in another country where the Swiss bank has bank accounts or other assets. The United States federal court would be my preference. The United States and most of the democratic nations subscribe to a legal doctrine called comity which is a doctrine of reciprocity by which courts of one country recognize and enforce judgments issued by courts of other countries. It is done everyday here.

As soon as the judgment is recorded in the United States court and the Swiss bank served with a notice, I can guarantee you that the lawyers for the bank will run to join the case. They will not ignore proceedings in the U.S. court. Of course they will attack the underlying judgment on procedural and other grounds. Fine. Now you have the bank in a court that it will never ignore.

In the unlikely event that the bank ignores the judgment after it has been filed in the U.S. court, the court will issue an order of attachment to allow the Congolese to seize any bank accounts or other assets of that bank in the United States to satisfy the judgment.

If the Congolese had followed the above legal route, one of the advantages to them would have been the likelihood of settlement of the claims multiplying a thousand times. Banks are notoriously averse to bad publicity and judgments.

But this is just one of several simple options.

[DaBishop]

Originally Posted by WayoGuy

Albany,

I hear you loud and clear. fficeffice" />>>
> >
I agree that the obstacles for the Congolese were huge, considering the resources of the Swiss bank and possible involvement of the Swiss government. >>
> >
But, my brother, legal maneuvering between lawyers involves more than financial and political powers. Resourceful and clever lawyers outmaneuver big banks and government lawyers daily. Such a clever lawyer would have seen several legal options open to the Congolese. >>
> >
Here is one of those options, which would have been easy and inexpensive: they should have filed a lawsuit in ffice:smarttags" />lace w:st="on">Congolace> against the specific Swiss bank involved. Given the condescending air with which the Swiss bankers treat our people, the bank would likely ignore such lawsuit. Then the Congolese court would issue a default judgment against the bank. (Even if the bank actually appeared in the court, the Congolese judge (wink) would still issue a quick judgment against the bank).>>
> >
At this stage, if I read the Swiss correctly, they would ignore the judgment too and refuse to pay. Fine. This is when the real battle starts.>>
> >
The Congolese would then file a certified copy of the judgment in the appropriate federal court in another country where the Swiss bank has bank accounts or other assets. The lace w:st="on">United Stateslace> federal court would be my preference. The lace w:st="on">United Stateslace> and most of the democratic nations subscribe to a legal doctrine called comity which is a doctrine of reciprocity by which courts of one country recognize and enforce judgments issued by courts of other countries. It is done everyday here.>>
> >
As soon as the judgment is recorded in the lace w:st="on">United Stateslace> court and the Swiss bank served with a notice, I can guarantee you that the lawyers for the bank will run to join the case. They will not ignore proceedings in the lace w:st="on">U.S.lace> court. Of course they will attack the underlying judgment on procedural and other grounds. Fine. Now you have the bank in a court that it will never ignore.>>
> >
In the unlikely event that the bank ignores the judgment after it has been filed in the U.S. court, the court will issue an order of attachment to allow the Congolese to seize any bank accounts or other assets of that bank in the lace w:st="on">United Stateslace> to satisfy the judgment. >>
> >
If the Congolese had followed the above legal route, one of the advantages to them would have been the likelihood of settlement of the claims multiplying a thousand times. Banks are notoriously averse to bad publicity and judgments.>>
> >
But this is just one of several simple options.>>

Bruz:
When can we start to tailor those options toward naija...or do we need a client first? Would an an aggrieved non-profit for good governance do?

[DeepThought]

Intersting Wayo, I guess the above was the template used against Shell in the Saro Wiwa case.

The problem with this is you're still playing by other people's rules. This is O.K if you want to take your chances.

I think maybe I prefer the bomb throwing alternatives.....

[Dapxin]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

I think maybe I prefer the bomb throwing alternatives.....

I think maybe I prefer the bomb throwing alternatives.....

oh my! it surely does always work. Imagine dem kill about 8 for Afghanistan few days ago here,and its been all war and prose here for england.

I wish I did bomb 101 at school. wiall ya teach me ?

[WayoGuy]

Originally Posted by DaBishop

Originally Posted by DaBishop

Bruz:
When can we start to tailor those options toward naija...or do we need a client first? Would an aggrieved non-profit for good governance do?

Ah, my learned brother, you know how it is now. If you and I can find a client who has legal standing or, as you put it, is aggrieved, we will be ready to go. The major obstacle to following my plans in a Naija case is that the foreign defendants have learned how to throw a few dollars to hungry Naija plaintiffs and sometimes judges to persuade them to abandon perfectly good cases when a good lawyer has barely started. It is frustrating to hardworking lawyers. Other than that, I cannot see why we can’t follow this plan in Naija. European countries have used it many times to gain access into U.S. courts to collect on judgments.

Originally Posted by DeepThought

Intersting Wayo, I guess the above was the template used against Shell in the Saro Wiwa case.

Originally Posted by DeepThought

The problem with this is you're still playing by other people's rules. This is O.K if you want to take your chances.

I think maybe I prefer the bomb throwing alternatives.....

Deep-thinking man, I hear your frustration and impatience. But clever lawyers can throw legal bombs too, using “other people’s rules”.

Sure, the bomb-throwing option, using real bombs, gets attention fast. But, with that option, we destroy one thing to gain another. Is it really a gain? Igbo people say that Nwoke rere ala nna ya wee kwaa ozu nna ya liri ozu abuo. (A man who sells his father's land for money to bury his dead father has buried two corpses).

Originally Posted by Dapxin

oh my! it surely does always work. Imagine dem kill about 8 for Afghanistan few days ago here,and its been all war and prose here for england.

Originally Posted by Dapxin

I wish I did bomb 101 at school. will ya teach me ?

Dapxin, you too? If you follow DeepThought, be sure to take a map with you, so that you can find your way back. Read his posts twice. That man is smarter than you and me.

[denker]

People:

..read Nne, WayoGuy well....he's a grown-up and a serious thinking man..he understands that out there a man gotta fight his fight...I thank Allah that on this thread a man named WayoGuy does serious thinking...God, abeg, give Nigeria more WayoGuys..spare Nigeria all these big crying BABys in this NVS.

[Albany]

Originally Posted by WayoGuy

>>
> >
Ah, my learned brother, you know how it is now. If you and I can find a client who has legal standing or, as you put it, is aggrieved, we will be ready to go. The major obstacle to following my plans in a Naija case is that the foreign defendants have learned how to throw a few dollars to hungry Naija plaintiffs and sometimes judges to persuade them to abandon perfectly good cases when a good lawyer has barely started. It is frustrating to hardworking lawyers. Other than that, I cannot see why we can’t follow this plan in Naija. European countries have used it many times to gain access into ffice:smarttags" />lace w:st="on">U.S.lace> courts to collect on judgments. >>
> >
>>
> >
Deep-thinking man, I hear your frustration and impatience. But clever lawyers can throw legal bombs too, using “other people’s rules”.>>
> >
Sure, the bomb-throwing option, using real bombs, gets attention fast. But, with that option, we destroy one thing to gain another. Is it really a gain? Igbo people say that Nwoke rere ala nna ya wee kwaa ozu nna ya liri ozu abuo. (A man who sells his father's land for money to bury his dead father has buried two corpses).

>>
>>
> >
Dapxin, you too? If you follow DeepThought, be sure to take a map with you, so that you can find your way back. Read his posts twice. That man is smarter than you and me. >>
> >

Wayoguy,

it seems you are unaware of the hypocrisy in International Relations and the 'gang-up' against Africa. Don't you know that the West uses a different set of parameters to measure justice when an African country is involved ? Can you mention just one Afrcian country that ever used the process you outlined to obtain justice in an American court against a western multinational company ?

Over the years, we have always heard that Nigeria is the (second ?) most corrupt country in the world or that Mobutu stole his country blind but you never get to hear that the moneys are being stashed in Swiss or Western banks. Why is it so ? Do you think that Transparency International never knew that those monies have been in Switzerland all along ?

If the Congolese were to file a lawsuit in the Congo against UBS, what exactly would they be praying the court to do ? The court of law is not a shrine where you swear that you never did this or that. If you claim that your stolen monies are being stashed in Swiss Banks, you should be able to say how much it is, or provide proof. Otherwise, the Swiss would just reply that it would take years to decode the actual amount Mobutu stole and they would finally pay you any amount they want, since you lack the proof of the actual amount stolen.

In 2006, for instance, Shell was fined $1.5 Billion for oil pollution in the Niger Delta region by a Nigerian high court but, even though Shell has assets in Nigeria, it has refused to pay that fine till today. In contrast, BP was fined a total sum of $373 Million in 2007 for violating environmental laws and for oil spills in Texas and Alaska respectively and they have since paid that fine. What i am trying to point out is that, even if the Congolese were to win the case aginst UBS in a congolese court, UBS can still ignore them like Shell did in Nigeria and America would not intervene for obvious reasons.

In another development, it took the Ogonis 13 years to get Shell to pay a paltry $15.5 Million, part of which would still be used in settling legal costs. Isn't that frustrating ?

Well, i wish the Congolese all the luck in the world, if they choose the option you suggested.