Racial talk swirls with Louis Gates arrest

[NextLevel]

Here is a picture.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...s_to_be_d.html

Obviously, Gates was not calm.

[NextLevel]

http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers...louis-gates-jr

Compare Gates story to the Officer's story. I find it interesting for psychological reasons that both might think that they are telling the truth, but obviously, one of them is not reading the situation properly, most likely for psychological reasons.

[Big-K]

Originally Posted by NextLevel

Big K,

The Police man did end it right there and then - etc etc

No, sir. By all accounts, the policeman THEN asked him to come out to the porch..and thats when things went downhill..Come to the porch - so he could arrest him? The mistake Gates made was eventually stepping out of the house..

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

UMO, there is so much wrong with this reasoning that I don't even know where to start

Are we to believe that because it is not Nigeria and because he would have been beaten in Nigeria, Gates was wrong ?

Are we to believe that the Police should be allowed to do what they want because they are the police?

sigh

"Sigh" - yeah, me too.

You don't know where to start, so you conveniently picked on the most unserious or off-handed part of my remarks (the Nigeria police joke) and ran away with it. So much for your "(right) reasoning".

I maintain that the man disobeyed a law enforcement officer, and insulted that officer repeatedly, before he eventually produced the identification that he should have simply produced in the FIRST place.

That, my friend, is asking for trouble. The officer was doinng the RIGHT THING by asking Gates for his identification, our friend Gates was doing the WRONG THING by arguing with the cop instead of simply producing the ID.

Some black people need to know that they are as normal as everybody else and therefore should stop exploiting the unfortunate legacy of racism in a manner that undermines the real cases of racism out there.

I would be more than happy to immediately show the cop my ID, were I in Gates' shoes. Life is hard enough as it is, why make it harder? Oh, I forget - Gate is black and he's gotta 'represent'..and show that he's tough and don't take nonesense.

From what I hear about Mr. Gates, he's a gentleman. That is why I am almost sure, that deep inside him now, that is with hindsight, he would be thinking that he coulda done this differently. I am assuming that the man is as reasonable as they say he is - which I believe.

Mr. Gates made a mistake..and he paid for it.

End of Story.

Auspicious.

[tonsoyo]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

[FONT=Georgia]+[/FONT
He's lucky it wasn't a Nigerian cop who showed up (dos wans nor dey show-up anyways); na butt of AK-47 dem go use shut-am up for Mouf.

Auspicious.

Some people just can't help themselves,, can they? What has Nigerian Police got to do with this? Like somebody on this forum aptly put it coming to America is the greatness achievement of this guy. He therefore defends it with the passion greater than that of George Washington.
The point is Gates do not live in Nigeria, he is American living in America. Something always betray people with embedded inferiority complex.


If you are a Cop who work in the neighborhood of an important personality like Gates and you do not know him, it is either you are a three months old rookie or you are plainly mischievous.
From what I know about policing in America, they make it their duty to know most people in the neighborhood. Even my little inconcospicous self was taken by surprised while idling in my car in some other area of the apartment that I lived, when I was accosted by a cop on asting in the area and said 'oh, I thought that was you'
I have never even seen him before.

No matter how long it took him to produce the ID, the moment he produced it and he discoveed it was his house, the cop should have apologized to him and move on.

Then who call the cops, neighbor who cannot recognize their neighbor? My neighbors would recognize me even at 2.00 am in the morning.

Can someone please tell this Mr. America that we are not interested in his gay friend he has gone to pick up?

[DeepThought]

God is great.
Now all I need to make my day is a story about the other idiiot, the psuedo Arab African of the soil, Ali Mazrui being arrested and jailed by Saudi Arabia.

@Auspicious.

Oh , that was an off handed comment or tongue in cheek comment eh? O.K. If you say so.
Lets not go into a long back and forth. Let me summarize my reading of you . Correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Gates was acting up and representing,challenging authority just like normally, as black people (especially African Americans ) do. Correct?

2. It doesn't matter, you must always obey without hesitation or question a policeman under all circumstances.Correct?



Thanks

[NextLevel]

Originally Posted by Big-K

No, sir. By all accounts, the policeman THEN asked him to come out to the porch..and thats when things went downhill..Come to the porch - so he could arrest him? The mistake Gates made was eventually stepping out of the house..

You must be confusing the police report with other things you've read or be reading the story in a different manner from what I think the policeman meant. The police man never asked Gates to come to the porch. The Policeman said that if Gates wanted to speak any further with him (the policeman), that Gates had to come to the porch.

Moreover, Gates claims that he never yelled. If he was yelling, some people must surely have heard him. The advantage of the policeman going outside, in addition to the fact that the policeman claims that he could not hear Gates while Gates was yelling, was that it introduced witnesses, so it is not just he said, he said at the end of it all.

I'm fairly surprised that you can't read the report without putting in things that aren't there.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by DeepThought

God is great.
Now all I need to make my day is a story about the other idiiot, the psuedo Arab African of the soil, Ali Mazrui being arrested and jailed by Saudi Arabia.

@Auspicious.

Oh , that was an off handed comment or tongue in cheek comment eh? O.K. If you say so.
Lets not go into a long back and forth. Let me summarize my reading of you . Correct me if I'm wrong.

1. Gates was acting up and representing,challenging authority just like normally, as black people (especially African Americans ) do. Correct?

2. It doesn't matter, you must always obey without hesitation or question a policeman under all circumstances.Correct?



Thanks

Hey There Mr. DeepThought!

You will do well to seek Forshow's assistance in English Comprehension.

Auspicious.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by tonsoyo

Some people just can't help themselves,, can they? What has Nigerian Police got to do with this? Like somebody on this forum aptly put it coming to America is the greatness achievement of this guy. He therefore defends it with the passion greater than that of George Washington.

The point is Gates do not live in Nigeria, he is American living in America. Something always betray people with embedded inferiority complex.

If you are a Cop who work in the neighborhood of an important personality like Gates and you do not know him, it is either you are a three months old rookie or you are plainly mischievous.

From what I know about policing in America, they make it their duty to know most people in the neighborhood. Even my little inconcospicous self was taken by surprised while idling in my car in some other area of the apartment that I lived, when I was accosted by a cop on asting in the area and said 'oh, I thought that was you'
I have never even seen him before.

No matter how long it took him to produce the ID, the moment he produced it and he discoveed it was his house, the cop should have apologized to him and move on.

Then who call the cops, neighbor who cannot recognize their neighbor? My neighbors would recognize me even at 2.00 am in the morning.

Can someone please tell this Mr. America that we are not interested in his gay friend he has gone to pick up?

The above is so far the most self-respecting, dignifying, responsible and intelligent contribution to this thread. Folks, please help me thank this contributor for his very useful comments.

Auspicious.

[Big-K]

Originally Posted by NextLevel

You must be confusing the police report with other things you've read or be reading the story in a different manner from what I think the policeman meant. The police man never asked Gates to come to the porch. The Policeman said that if Gates wanted to speak any further with him (the policeman), that Gates had to come to the porch.

Moreover, Gates claims that he never yelled. If he was yelling, some people must surely have heard him. The advantage of the policeman going outside, in addition to the fact that the policeman claims that he could not hear Gates while Gates was yelling, was that it introduced witnesses, so it is not just he said, he said at the end of it all.

I'm fairly surprised that you can't read the report without putting in things that aren't there.

OK NL..neither you nor I were present, so I wont pursue this further. But its hard to rationalize handcuffing a man away from HIS OWN HOME. I've seen profiling face-to-face (Cited three times for three trumped-up offenses by the same cop in Texarcana), I can see where Gates is coming from, and I do hope you won't be a victim of such before seeing this...Cheers

[NextLevel]

Originally Posted by Big-K

OK NL..neither you nor I were present, so I wont pursue this further. But its hard to rationalize handcuffing a man away from HIS OWN HOME. I've seen profiling face-to-face (Cited three times for three trumped-up offenses by the same cop in Texarcana), I can see where Gates is coming from, and I do hope you won't be a victim of such before seeing this...Cheers

The usual "you don't see racism because you've never experienced it
argument.

There is nothing to rationalize - husbands get handcuffed in their homes all the time. This is a case where Gates might have played as much a role in how he was treated as any racial tension. In fact, I think Gates was so angry for the reason that you suggested that he didn't handle the situation as well as he could have. I have no doubt that the cops can be abusive. Boston can be a nasty place. middle class whites can sometimes get a kick out of making wealthy Blacks uncomfortable, and it's not like Cops are always kumbaya people or that they can't abuse their power. It's just that when you look for racism, you'll find it far more often than when you don't look for it. And I think Gates was conditioned in this case to see things that weren't there.

[katampe]

I wanted to watch a documentary that he produced some months back, each time I tried, his demeanour and the way he characterized struggling black people seemed so harsh and without compassion. There was the context current, subtle, yet culturally for me as an African, it was very blatantly offensive, I mean the documentary, the narrator was so detached and without empathy.

It gave me the horrid and cold sense of watching a manufacturing factory churn out consumption goods without human life.I tried several times, I gave up, I could not bear the look and the situation of the "other" black people in the documentary. The documentary was about two states of the black nation, the upwardly mobile black man, and the stagnant black man caught in the web of poverty and hopelessness. Gates looked like an intellectual exhibitionist narrating how far he had come.

Yet, when u read the July 16th story, the drama of irony of life he has got caught up in, you see a man that struggled for respect as a black man all his life, someone who wanted to be regarded as a human being on the strength of his intellectual contributions and hard work but all that would go up in the madness instantiated by a passer-by at 12:30 PM (can u imagine?) afternoon burglary! With a disabled burglar donning spectacles and with an unsteady gait and dressed in sense that you can easily interpret his social class if you were a good cop. What happened to preppiness?

In the policeman's narrative (his written point of view), it is not hard to see, or deconstruct, it is the same idea in psychology that heralds the perception that is the product of optical illusions - you only see what you want to see. The drama starts with a confirmation bias that heralds a stereotypical assumption of blacks as criminals that have no place in an elite institution. For some reason, the time of the day, the manner of the dress, the cultural aura and cultivated sense of sophistication around the professor were less highlighted than colour in the assessment of the policeman.

Who says there is a post-racial America? Not yet.

[Celticologist]

Originally Posted by Big-K

Cited three times for three trumped-up offenses by the same cop in Texarcana

Why do you experiment with these kinds of places?. Population 36,000 with funny accents.
Civil rights wise,... everything wise, Texarcana isn't even fully liberated yet!.

[ISL]

Auspy, you are so wrong....being rudely questioned IN YOUR OWN HOME by anyone (cop or no cop) is not the same as being asked to "move your jalopy" which was (1)Illegally parked in the first place on a public street (2)You'd been asked to move once already(3) You clearly broke the law by "screeching" off (it is called excessive display of acceleration/power, you can ticket for it, as well as one for reckless endangerment, and one for noise pollution). So you deserved to pay your fines (aka "being stupid" tax)..............on the other hand, the last time I checked there was no law preventing you from voicing your dissatisfaction at an officer.

No one really knows how they will react till they're faced with this situation, I consider myself to be pretty mild mannered and could never understand why anyone would ever mouth off to the cops.........till one night a few years ago when some bitch in my community called the cops on me while I was working on my bike at night (she told them I was trying to break in to cars, wtf?)

One moment I'm minding my own business, the next moment there was a squad car shining its lights in my face and a cop barking instructions at me to "drop everything in your hands and come here" .....in my head I was thinking "I have suffered, see how this junior college dropout is just talking to me like I'm a criminal"

Asked me a bunch of questions including my ID which I was not carrying, since I didn't think I needed one in front of my own home. I was so pissed off, the only thing that kept me from going nuts was the image of being hauled off to jail. Even as I provided her with information I kept wondering if I was doing the right thing or not, I mean I hadn't done jack and was in front of my own home!!!!!

Sure she was just doing her job, but did she have to be a dick about it?

Shouldn't I have the right to be just a bit upset at being harrased "at home"?

Should I not be able to vent about it?

I felt like I was being "punked"! (for lack of a better expression)

I can only imagine how the professor felt at some oyinbo man forcing his way INTO HIS OWN HOUSE!!!!

You would have to be some kind of a pantywaist pacifist if the idea another man violating the privacy of your own home in the middle of the night does not make your blood boil! Cop should have known better, and would have probably dusted off all the yelling if the prof. had been some oyinbo man (fact!)

Per the home alarm thing, I've had that happen to me as well at my g/fs house, the cops that showed up could not have been anymore polite, showed them proof of residence and they chit chatted for a bit and left! No hassle, didn't force their way in or any other form of overly aggressive behavior (I suspect it might have had something to do with the fact that a woman came to the door and not some ~6'2 black man)

[Celticologist]

The accounts are a bit contradicting everywhere you turn; especially Mr Gates account. I would pull the race if I was him too; it's a winnig card.
I'm sure Ali Mazrui is reading all these stuff, smiling heppily, and wondering why Gates approached his own house through the wrong gate.

[DeepThought]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Hey There Mr. DeepThought!

You will do well to seek Forshow's assistance in English Comprehension.

Auspicious.

Auspicious,
You're well within your right to decline to answer any questions you don't feel like.What you 're not within your right to be is to be rude. I can play that game very well too.
When we start playing that game, please don't mouth off about how respectful and polite you are.

Thank you

[Big-K]

Originally Posted by Celticologist

Why do you experiment with these kinds of places?. Population 36,000 with funny accents.
Civil rights wise,... everything wise, Texarcana isn't even fully liberated yet!.

Brother,
Its not Texarkarna the town, but the general border area between Texas and Arkansas (south of clinton's hometown). The black triple-A guy forewarned that we do not want to buy gas, nor have a flat in that area, and he was so right - its one of my 'blackest' experiences in the US. Once you've experienced these things, you'll understand how people like Gates see things. Hey Nextlevel..are you up for an eye-opening cross-country trip? :d Like you, I rise above racism, but we must acknowledge it exists. later

[pappilo]

Na lie! This happened in U S of A?

I thought after the election of Obama we had reached Utopia.

[tonsoyo]

OK people, let us get serious. My first post was meant to antagonize Auspicious for finding a way to unnecessarily bring Nigeria into an issue that is purely America. He should stop ejaculating at the mentioning of Ameee.

Now to the real issue I found myself agreeing with Auspicious.

Situation A
Here is my analysis of the situation. A man, Gates, had been in a flight for over 20 hours and was most likely looking forward to a long blissful rest in the embrace and the comfort of his home. The last thing he was looking forward to is the aggravation of his door not cooperating, of course he is mad already. To compound the situation, a probably barking or yelling cop wants to know what he is doing in his own living room, when he finally had the opportunity to get in.

Situation B
A Police Officer received a call that two black male (some rare commodities in the neighbourhood) are trying to break into a home, which prima facially is the truth.
A Police Officer is not into hospitality business, he is out there to prevent a crime from being committed and probably save his own life too, so he is less concerned and ignorant of Gates frustrations.

He has a probable cause to be in the house, because he received a call that a probable crime is afoot. They are trained to bark orders in such circumstances, in case the other party is actually a criminal.

Situation A & B put together was a perfect storm.

Mr. Gates is supposed to be aware of how to handle such situations instead of going on ego-trip. Something is definitely wrong when you have to battle your own door to gain access into your own house, the onus is on him to be cool and give a proper explanation. If you start walking away from a cop after he demanded for your ID without you telling him that oh, I left it on my dinning table, can I go and get it? he has every reason to call for a back up and get hostile, because he does not know what you have in the house or how many people are there. He owes it to his own safety to react harshly.

I had a very similar experience. I was living in a ground floor of an apartment that had no central A/C. In my attempt to do I-go-do-it-myself installation of a very heavy A/C on the window, I dropped it, and I was mad and I just left it there.

Not quite 30 minutes after this, I got a very rude banging on my door and I was wondering who that could be, when I looked through the spy-hole on my door I saw a cop standing there with his hand on his hip, ready to strike. I quietly opened the door and enquired how I may help him.
He used his harsh cop's voice to demand if I live there, I said yes, what is the matter? he ignored the question and demanded for an ID which I produced from my pocket.
He then apologized to me and said there is an A/C lying behind my window outside and that the common practice for burglars is to remove the airconditioning unit to gain access into people's apartment.

He apologized for disturbing me and I thanked him for being efficient and everybody was happy.

A little co-operation and maturity on the side of Gates could have saved both of them the aggravation. He apparently went off at the audacity of the cop asking him what he was doing in his own living room. But hey, he is a cop, he was just doing what he is paid to do.

The only part that is not clear to me, is how any cop that works in the neighborhood a Sgt. for that matter, will not know a popular figure like Gates. But then most of these cops are a bunch of junior college drop-outs like ISL said above.

We should becareful about how we pull the race card, it may backfire someday.

[tonsoyo]

Originally Posted by NextLevel

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%2...s%20arrest.PDF

That's a link to the police reports. They make for very eye-opening reading and show that Auspicious has nailed what happened - Gates pissed off the cops by calling them racist so they decided to teach Gates a lesson.

People, I believe this Police Report.