Afrocentric (i.e. the Africa centred perspective

[NextLevel]

Originally Posted by Palamedes

It is dominant and will continue to be dominate (for instance) if Al Gore speaks, and some Africans jump and call on their governments to make the content of his speech a top priority or when UK calls for the removal of Mugabe and some Africans jump and call on their governments to heed to UK demands. Simply, it is up to the consumers-- if they continue to buy coca cola, it will continue to conquer the world.

This is precisely the kind of reasoning above that leads me to believe that Afrocentrists of your ilk are not dealing with the facts of the ground. Do you really believe that Mugabe's actions have benefited Zimbabweans and that supporting him are in the best interests of the region?

There is a power disparity in the world at present and it is a fact of life - you have decided to characterize it as one of attitudes. This I have disagreed with. Changes in attitudes have been the bedrock of the American education system for the past few decades and are the results where the Afrocentrists would like them to be with respect to the Africans within them? If yes, then great!

You are too caught up in the European mindset to understand what Afrocentricism means. It shows in your habit of contrasting Europe with Africa, which is another way of contrasting black and white. The black/white binary world is one created (to the exclusion of other races) by the West and the one that is embedded in your thinking process. The question is "are you able to think outside this western box?"

Afrocentricism do not accept the European Black/White world. Afrocentricism rooted in an African meme tries to define its own world from a African perspective--a world that is more 'complete'.

Well, I've been waiting for you to define this "world", so that we can deal with the details, but as far as I can see, I will be waiting for a long time.

The western box has nothing to do with the "White-Black" dichotomy that your ilk has repeated attached to me. It has more to do with an empirically motivated mindset that is continually solving problems through a hardheaded approach to evidence and facts. It's rare to find an Afrocentrist who has a decent training in statistics/mathematics for example (Neop probably being an exception). But what I am saying is that this approach to facts does not need labeling, but to contrast it with your support for Afrocentrism, I have labeled it.

Your continuing introduction of Eurocentricism in a Afrocentricism debate is (to use popular Nigerian word) insulting. It is like farting in a 'clean air' campaign meeting; and (to repeat myself) it demonstrates your lack of understanding of Afrocentricism. Afrocentricism stands on own and is NOT dependent of any outside perspective(s). Imagine Afrocentricism as the Frank Sinatra song ‘I Did It My Way’ That's right! Afrocentricism is ‘Africa doing it their way'. But Afrocentricism is not a single perspective but a gamut of perspective all from one main source--the African meme. Also Afrocentricism is not about re-inventing the wheel--in a manner of speaking.

Tell me one perspective, idea, ideologies etc., that has 100% support, that is to say, without a single dissenting voice. 100% support of anything is unhealthy and even unnatural.

When you have specified the details of what you consider Afrocentric, I will be better able to adjust my view point. Until then, all these generalities are simply that. Even the way I described Eurocentrism should tell you that it is not really Eurocentric, unless you believe that the ability to practice scientific thinking is exclusively European.

Sir, here is a quote from me:



These issues are not mutually exclusive, and where would the world be if it can only accommodate mutually inclusive single-task rather than multi—tasking that is nature. I don't know why discussion of Afrocentrism offends you so much. (I should ask: when Africans show unnecessary repugnance to African issues that they imagine to be threatening to another races, how of such view is a show of loyalty to their partner of that other race?--just musing.)

Sir, I am sure that you can start another thread to discuss “people dying”, “bad rulers”, “fishes”, “history” , “useless philosophy”. And I am equally sure that no Fishes would visit your thread and start throwing tantrums, demanding that issue under discussion be switched to Afrocentrism.

Maybe because I consider your Afrocentrism threatening to African people until I hear more about the details to make finer judgment? What is the Afrocentric agenda? What are specific actions to be taken on the basis of supporting it? Responding to my questions with defenses of imagination as a substitute for real problem solving is part of the problem, not the solution.

Feel free to report my posts to a third party moderator. After all, nothing I have posted has not been in the spirit of this thread. That you should, with all your usual rejection of third party insults, be supporting insults cast against me with your silence is hypocritical, but I will post here as I see fit and if you want me to remain silent, simply stop talking about me and I will not talk about you.

To summarize, in case you do not want to deal with the details:

The idea that I or any other opponent of Afrocentrism cannot see issues from an "African" perspective will only become clear when that "African" perspective is defined in detail. If only those who defend Mugabe against the West can see that African perspective, then I fully retain the right to be against such a perspective.


POST SCRIPT
I was discussing the Yoruba-Igbo relations with a friend of mine and the topic went off tangent and he said that Africans should outsource their energy production and other industries to Americans etc. or those who could do the job better. I said that was inviting problems that I would almost definitely prefer technologies that were sustainable, even if less efficient, and could be developed by Africans given the conflicts inherent in giving your technologies to foreign (especially Western) nations. And he said that I was a joker, given that our level of technological achievement was not where it should be.

That is the difference between specifics and generalities. One side has a position that is substantially different in theory and practice and these sides exemplify these positions in various actions and decisions on various issues. What you all are doing is attacking my claims without defining your positions. So start defining your positions.

So like I said, let's hear the details of this Afrocentric agenda and what results it expects to achieve.

[Palamedes]

NextLevel@#260

This is precisely the kind of reasoning above that leads me to believe that Afrocentrists of your ilk are not dealing with the facts of the ground. Do you really believe that Mugabe's actions have benefited Zimbabweans and that supporting him are in the best interests of the region?

Did you overlook the “(for instance)“ in the segment your quoted?

Well, I've been waiting for you to define this "world", so that we can deal with the details, but as far as I can see, I will be waiting for a long time.

It is simple, I assume that you have a view of the world that is different from (say) mine. Now imagine Africa with its own view of the world. You see! It is SO easy to explain.

The western box has nothing to do with the "White-Black" dichotomy that your ilk has repeated attached to me.

Well, it has everything to do with your thought process, you just don't know it. And the worst part of brainwashing is not knowing the harm it is doing to one, like the cunning bloody house mouse who eats away the skin off one's toes--blowing cool air and scrapping--as one slept. This is where Afrocentrism can help you heal the wound.

When you have specified the details of what you consider Afrocentric, I will be better able to adjust my view point. Until then, all these generalities are simply that. Even the way I described Eurocentrism should tell you that it is not really Eurocentric, unless you believe that the ability to practice scientific thinking is exclusively European.

Sir, I keep telling you, (Sorry, I don't want to sound too authoritarian, so I will rephrase myself) I have already said many a time that Afrocentrists are only interested in Afrocentrism, and don't give a damn about Eurocentrism, Arabcentrism or for that matter, any -centrism except Afrocentrism. To them, there is only on 'god' and that god is Afrocentrism.

What is the Afrocentric agenda?

You are doing it again--asking question that should not arise. We are not talking about (say) a political agenda because Afrocentrism is a level higher. There is no one grand organized master plan. Afrocentrism is a perspective, an African perspective, an 'African introspection'. It can manifest itself in arts, economics (It can even include my 'patriotic capitalism'), fashion, music, poetry, building, town planning (following traditional African compound style) etc. The possibilities are endless.

Feel free to report my posts to a third party moderator...That you should, with all your usual rejection of third party insults, be supporting insults cast against me with your silence is hypocritical...

I don't know what “third party insults” you are alluding to. So do enlighten me. And what calls for this statement about reporting your post to...to who and why?

That is the difference between specifics and generalities.

If we were using building construction analogy, one could say--perusing your various posts--that you are kinda of bricklayer type of guy (Oh, please don't feel INSULTED O! It is on an analogy). The designing and architecture that come before the construction is not you forte. You just want to get on with the job and not wait for those men with their drawings. I don't blame you, most people are like that. Hence your incessant demand to know implementation details (of Afrocentricism).

Sir, I am afraid to disappoint you: Afrocentricism do not even deal at the level of building architecture. Nevertheless, an architect might choose to design what one could call an “Afrocentric design.” "What is it?" For sure, such building wouldn't contain chimney. (Sir, do you know that I once lived in a house in Lagos, built by the British and it had a chimney and fireplace in it--don't you just love the British ingenuity!

[NextLevel]

At this point, Palamedes, given my limited time and resources, and the opportunity for other things with higher psychic and financial ROI, I must close this investment down.

Cheers,
NL

[Nok]

One has been keenly following the content of number of exchanges on other threads of this website, and trying to distil the essence of " thinking character" that may be responsible for our wayward national history. As must be obvious to other concerned posters, there's a quite unrestrained degree of interethnic mudslinging. This isn't news of course but it can hopefully be argued that there's certainly a place for analysis of the content of our conversations as Nigerians as a means to understand the character of our national purpose (or its lack).

The peculiar factors which define our national achievements are, I believe, memetically derived. National achievements are not necessarily the result of some imposed structured education or special "structured thought" - except that the education induces some memetic transformation. It is our memes, with which we are blindly involved, that determine our national fate . Absolutely all the pointers of national possibility (for good or bad) are found in the most ordinary and most informal of our idea exchanges (discussions). If father is too afraid to tell son (or teacher tell student) that Africans are of equal or greater intelligence than europeans or asians, thereby sowing the seed of a competitive thought culture, from where would we magically derive the thinking process that would make us world players? Development isn't a superimposition. It is merely IN CHARACTER.. Therefore the thoughts and ideas displayed on this website reflect the nature of the foundations and cultural architecture, as well as functionality of that idea called Nigeria. They are the true unabashed nature of Nigeria.

If it were possible to devise an experiment where two separate groups of "illiterate" individuals without ANY formal education from two different cultures, say China and Nigeria, were situated in two habitations with exactly the same environmental potential, in which case they'd both be starting from scratch, it would be interesting to observe the comparative trajectories of development over a period of time. Am I biased about the probable result of such an experiment, especially if it were instituted today? Possibly.

I think the problem is in the type of abstracting that we do. Clearly the interethnic malice displayed on this website is not redeemed by a clear Vision of greatness of Ethnic Self. This is a complex subject, for attempting to look from outside a system that one is already a part of might well be an illusory experience. However, those who are Afrocentrically inclined, and therefore free to abstract and introspect about Africa without being constrained by other systems of thought, and who are of themselves their own humble teachers and avid students, must to this purpose apply themselves.