Single mothers.. villains or victims?

Originally Posted by liloldlady

Well !!! I would say, don't hold your breath. Whose society is in better shape as we speak? The best indicator of the future, is the past....how well are these Utopian 'non-western' society faring, when you compare, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness, to what obtains in 'western society' (I have preferred to use the term western society as a homogeneous/monolithic entity for the purposes of this post hence use of the singular noun 'western society')
How does "Children as a pension plan" explain single parenting or lack of same in economies without a welfare state then?

I thought you were trying to explain the etiology of single motherhood, And how the welfare state in the west has exacerbated the phenomenon, and not the various reasons people have for having large families.

Exactly. Utopian non-western societies indeed....with mostly 'sham' marriages.......marriage as the only ticket to freedom from unemployment, poverty, illiteracy and lack of motivation. Then you look at the children borne in such environments.....devoid of any hope and meaningful futures. The reason I would rather stick with the statistical data of the western countries......since we have real issues to be dealt with, where poverty is not a major concern.

Yes, liloldlady....the welfare state is partly to blame. They have encouraged single parenthood negatively. I would gladly assist the 'real' single parents who truly have a chance at success as a tax payer. But all those ladies who drop out school and sit at home waiting for welfare checks should not be encouraged. THEY SHOULD NOT EVEN GET CHILD SUPPORT in my opinion.

The reason I stated most welfare income recipients should be re-screened. Most use that as a means of income.....depriving the real single parents who need them the services. In France for example.....child care agents at home are encouraged and paid for by the government for working single mothers as opposed to the use of day care facilities if they choose. In the US the government, mostly just hands out welfare checks/food stamps to everyone out there with a child under WIC(women, infants and children) programs without any strict guidelines. Thereby making it easier to take advantage of the system by some irresponsible men/women who have no business bringing children they cannot take care of into the world.

[nero africanus]

Originally Posted by liloldlady

MMmm Interesting...I know for a fact that we do not have a welfare state in Nigeria, and a host of other third world countries, therefore its not tenable, to use the arguement that the welfare state has usurped the roles of fathers in the household, as a model, for why there is a prevalence of that particular type of family structure in todays society as opposed to what obtained 20,30yrs ago.

dear lilold lady i was expecting you ,

let us be realistic here , how large in these these countries that you mentioned are single parent families as a proportion of the entire population?

i hope we are not really on anecdotes or people that we know , how many single familties in terms of proportion do we have in nigeria

let me define a single parent unit , a relationship of any sort of which there were children , but no marriage. i dont consider a family where the man died and the woman is a widow to be single parent family , i dont consider a long term relationship lasting up to 5 years before collapsing as being a single parent family. yes we have more single parents today more as far as im concerned as a result of colonial mentality where every cultural mutation in the west is accepted in our society.

do you remember the old saying " every mistake in london is a new style in nigeria?"

In the past women had less Options and opportunities. It was rare for a woman to have a role outside the home, and most women had no independent income, and relied solely on husbands for survival.
with society evolving, Women got better education, acquired skills that were marketable, and began to earn incomes outside the home, by being gainfully employed. This opened up better opportunities for them to assume roles, that they hitherto did not have.
We still had widows in society and some thrived whilst some struggled.
There is nothing inherently lacking in women that prevents them from raising kids alone, if they have their resources in place, especially monetary ones.
Not all widows remarried and not all had the support of the extended family. some were still able to pull their weight, and raise well adjusted and productive members of society, inspite of not having a man to share the burden with.

what past is this you refer to ? the women where i come from farmed along side the men , they also made successful traders in the weekly markets , i keep saying it african societies do not traditionally have house wives which is what you seem to be implying , this is an european concept. the reality you describe is that of the european female before 1939 , not the african female which i assume is what we are discussing here.

The benefits system was not supposed to or designed to be a substitute for income, derived from earnings.
Your spin on the benefits issue is curious.....What happens is that most of these transient lovers move in with these women, in homes provided by the state, whose upkeep is paid for by the state, when in fact, these men rather than work, would rather doss around all day, drinking larger, and watching day time soap. Why should his sex life be subsidised by the state, if he would not go out there, and work, and provide for the woman and kids.

liloldlady ,
the stage of transient lovers come in when the state has already provided a home for the single mother , before that stage is tha stage of the teenager/young adult who is not yet pregnant and hasnt had a child yet, when this female gets pregnant , and has a child the state provides her with housing , benefits and all other kinds of support. she is on benefit with a child and a single mother.

she is now in a dillemma , she cannot attract any reasonable hard working male in that state, she will only attract like minded people who are on benefits as well and are as you described transient. she cannot have a hardworking man move in , as she will lose the housing , she can only move in with someone on the dole as well.

we know that males tend to look at women with children which isnt theres are having baggage, and generally avoid them , to move in with such a woman will require the man providing accommodation that will accommodate her and the child remember she didnt work in the first place and cant contribute anything. the next stage in the transience is having more kids with different men for more dole money and a larger house ,

How many couples have you heard of who divorced each other, because they were better off claiming state benefit as single persons.
The benefit system is structured so, because the state realises that a single parent has fewer options than when there is a man in the house who can do more. Remember if he is disabled, or Infirm.. the state also factors that in, and provides extra accordingly.
So the men who end up relying on state benefits most times, as a means to support their families, are those who should be out there working anyway.

if a couple are together, they are obliged to get a house that has at least 2 bedrooms for both them and the child, for low income earners this does cost a bit , it gets worse when the women becomes a nursing mother and cannot work, money becomes tight.

lets do the maths imagine a man working as a cleaner taking home 800 pounds a month after taxes trying to support a partner/gf/wife and coming baby , pay for a two bed house required by the law( if he cant do this the girl will be advised to break up with him to get a 2 bed council house required by law - she cant get it if she is not a single mother ).this will cost him around 400 pounds at least. he is left with 400 pounds apart from tax credits between the three of them. she gets nothing apart from maternity pay if she is working and nothing if she is not working but is in a relationship with a man

now imagine where the single mother gets a two bed house from the council and 480 pounds as a single mother apart from the child benefits .

why would she hang around this fellow to share 400 pounds with him.

a lot of people , for a long time have been trying to cheat the system by claiming they are single when they are not to get free housing and a bit more money. the resultant effect is that sooner or later the woman realises that as a result of these benefits which she attracts on her own , she doesnt need this man and kicks him out. marriage works as a result of mutual need

Have you stopped to consider that their reason for such low aim, and ambition, could be that the men who obviously fathered them, and are now fathering their offspring, are failing to provide them with leadership. These men choose not to hang around and raise their offspring...who do you blame? the girls who are doing what is noble, and not dumping the kids in a public dumpster somewhere, or the men who roll from one warm bed to the next, and never pause, to consider the extent of the dysfunction, they leave in their wake.

et tu? liloldlady ,
you are blaming the men for the choices that these women have made in the first place , has it occured to you that some of these women dont even know who the father of the child is? night out , got drunk , got knocked up, has it occured to you that some got pregnant for someone who they werent even in a relationship with anyway. has it occured to you that some got pregnant for a man who they were in a relationship that wasnt going anywhere? for instance should it be normal 8 weeks into any relationship of any kind for a woman to get pregnant ?

dont you think that a mans responsibility for a child needs to start from the point where there is a mutual agreement to make babies

dont you think that the obligation to prevent pregancy and at least insist the man uses contraceptive lies with the woman ,

it is for this reason that many non western societies still see the woman as the controller of morality, this might not be right but it is the control system in place

it is for this reason that if ada reports she was raped at obi's house , people ask her what she was doing in obi's house in the first place rather than blame obi, it is the woman that spreads her legs( forgive my language ) , it is she that gets pregnant, for that reason control lies with her

So why do we have single parents in Nigeria, Ghana, Vietnam, China, Brasil, and a host of third world countries without any saftey nets/welfare state.
Take Nigeria as an example...you know we have single parents in Nigeria.
is it not remiss to overlook the lack of leadership by the men as a reason, instead of blaming a non existent welfare state in the case of Nigeria.

see above , i think with reference with what we are dealing with , you need to address the sheer scale in the west , then you understand that relatively we have no single parents , that is not to say there are no absolute single parents. however in most cases that i know of single parents, the marriage fell apart and the men took custody of the children. as a result of the existing patrileneal system in most nigerian cultures .

Once again I bring up Nigeria ...what system? What social saftey net is in place in Nigeria, That you can say a Nigerian single mother wants to exploit?
Well !!! I would say, don't hold your breath. Whose society is in better shape as we speak? The best indicator of the future, is the past....how well are these utopian 'non-western' society faring, when you compare, life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness, to what obtains in 'western society' (I have prefered to use the term western society as a homogenous/monolithic entity for the purposes of this post hence use of the singular noun 'western society')

if you want to discuss pursuit of happiness, liberty and life with me , you may need to open another thread. technically here are no single mothers in nigeria cos i dont class women whose marriages didnt work out as single mothers, however i know some marriages collapse because people for reasons best known to them refused to work at resolving the issues threatening it.

How does "Children as a pension plan" explain single parenting or lack of same in economies without a welfare state then?

the dynamics prevents unnecessary and preventable divorce as a result of a sense of responsiblity in both parents to children and to self for survival as a result of lack of choices like pension and welfare benefits . the collectivisation of rural communities and rural life further enthrones this. the network of family prevents divorces other than the grounds of irreconciliable differences rather than on grounds seen in the west these days like boredom, lack of interest in sex, drifting apart , lack of spark etc

I thought you were trying to explain the aetiology of single motherhood, And how the welfare state in the west has exacerbated the phenomenon, and not the various reasons people have for having large families.

i added that as an interesting observable contrast for cause and effect

[liloldlady]

Originally Posted by nero africanus

dear lilold lady i was expecting you

Oga Nero...before I reply your post, please tell me why you were expecting me, I no be rain whose dark clouds have been gathering for hours...
please Kowashiate.

[nero africanus]

Originally Posted by liloldlady

Oga Nero...before I reply your post, please tell me why you were expecting me, I no be rain whose dark clouds have been gathering for hours...
please Kowashiate.

my initial post just seemed the type of response you would try to debunk, thats all ,

i knew you wouldnt agree with it

there are a few others i was expecting , but i dont think they will turn up

[2plus2]

Singles mothers, are single mothers. Women raising children without support from the birth father. Having said that, it is pure fallicy to conclude or even elucidate that African societies did not have single parenting. No, we have always had this. Just that is was defined differently and subject to class, status and whether the women concerned came from "royality or not" the woman could just about buy her way out of certain cultural obligations.

So for example, as far back as I can remember I knew of various women whose husbands had disappeared from teh lifes of their children. The result being that these children were raised by a coatree of aunties, uncles and the like who lived with their mother. We cannot assume anything about our cultural norms and values. It is constantly evolving and changing.

I am digressing here, but it's like the whole name change thing when you get married. Really people should look at how fundamentalist christain norms changed the concept of what we did with our surnames. It was never like this before circa 1925 just before the igbo women's war and just before the catholic missonaries landed in Orlu, Owerre and Mbaise. Between teh catholics and anglicans certain sections of Owerre where carved out for themselves. For avoidance of doubt spend time in the archives of SOAS (cannot remember the other place now), it's a treasure throve. Unbelieve material. Just plain wonderful it see documented.

[Austin]

Finally I am beginning to see the transformstion I have been waiting for. At least now we can agree to disagree. Finally, I am on a wavelength closer to dewdrops. Finally, my basket mouth got to speak again.

very interesting, everybody is right in their ways, it is only when people take issues to the extreme that unnecessary problems tend to arise.

Like a few others and especially dewy has said, the children are here; the mothers are part of us; the welfare system is already here; the philanthrophists and charity workers are around the corner waiting; liberation and wealth have finally reached our ladies and btw mothers; as a matter of fact, many many things are in favor of the woman and her child/children. So, what seems to still be lacking? Oh, thats our collective will to live with the situation - which we have little or no control over in the first place. And seriously speaking, we all have no choice - politicians and preachers. Eurocentrics and Africanists. EVENTUALLY, WE ALL NEED TO REALIZE: IT IS THE CHILDREN THAT MATTER.

The children matter because they will eventually become part of the society, or perhaps leaders like Obama. And if we treat them well, and give them the best of things we can, then we'll all reap the benefit; and if we do the opposite, we will also all reap the reward.

The last point being the particular reason why I think the statistics quoted are perculiar to the USA and countries with systems and mentalities like it. In countries like Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark for example, it is almost very difficult to see any marked difference in all children and adult. and this is simply because, NOBODY REALLY GIVES A HOOT WHAT KINDA FAMILY YOU COME FROM. Everybody is addressed and treated equally. Here it doesn't matter whether you're jobless or have been to jail or whatever. It is your humanit that matters first and foremost. Perhaps there is still room for improvement, but at least they have really tried. The point I guess I am trying to close with is that, every society has it's good and bad sides. and societies generally get what they planned for covertly or overtly.

[lateesha]

Like a few others and especially dewy has said, the children are here; the mothers are part of us; the welfare system is already here; the philanthrophists and charity workers are around the corner waiting; liberation and wealth have finally reached our ladies and btw mothers; as a matter of fact, many many things are in favor of the woman and her child/children. So, what seems to still be lacking? Oh, thats our collective will to live with the situation - which we have little or no control over in the first place

.

Agreed the kids are here but you and I have control if we choose to because there are others on the way.
The key is education.
knowing what we know about the odds against these kids,single motherhood should be discuoraged with strong terms.

And seriously speaking, we all have no choice - politicians and preachers. Eurocentrics and Africanists. EVENTUALLY, WE ALL NEED TO REALIZE: IT IS THE CHILDREN THAT MATTER.

We are all born with choices
and in many countries you have the right to make an informed choice.
The children matter, yes, and a woman that realises that should make the right choice with that in mind.
They deserve the best.

The children matter because they will eventually become part of the society, or perhaps leaders like Obama. And if we treat them well, and give them the best of things we can, then we'll all reap the benefit; and if we do the opposite, we will also all reap the reward.

and one of the best treatments is to teach them to wait for marriage before becoming mommies and don't follow mommy's footsteps if she was unwed before popping out latifa,shenene and mallika

The last point being the particular reason why I think the statistics quoted are perculiar to the USA and countries with systems and mentalities like it

This is not about cities,states and countries
It's about a unit called family.

In countries like Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark for example, it is almost very difficult to see any marked difference in all children and adult. and this is simply because, NOBODY REALLY GIVES A HOOT WHAT KINDA FAMILY YOU COME FROM

.

Says who?
What sane society would turn it's back to moral decay?
Do these soceities have child welfare officers who take away kids from unfit parents?
If they do then they care what family a child is being reared in.
It's about the child,remember?
Oh I hear many families in those places have no kids or just one.
Well the welfare families at this end usually have an average of 4 kids supported by working families from conception and sometimes for life.

Everybody is addressed and treated equally. Here it doesn't matter whether you're jobless or have been to jail or whatever. It is your humanit that matters first and foremost.

I wonder what you call equal treatment.
To the best of my knowledge,most civilized soceities strive to treat everyone equal within reason but I doubt if they'll move a welfare mother of 6 from a council flat to an exclusve surburb.
Water has it's level.
Equality is a relative term.

Perhaps there is still room for improvement, but at least they have really tried. The point I guess I am trying to close with is that, every society has it's good and bad sides. and societies generally get what they planned for covertly or overtly.

In this case we're talking of having kids and sometimes multiple kids out of wedlock and overcrowding the juvenile system and the welfare system which my tax dollars support.
It should be condemned with the strongest language.
I'm not only at risk from harm,I and other hard working Americans pay for them.

Moving on to more pertinent aspects of the "single parenthood" drama. Enough of what we already know. My focus.....dealing with single parenthood.

Reality Sound bites.

http://www.kidscount.org/datacenter/...ults.jsp?i=722
Obviously single parenting is predominantly a "black" thing......In Africa or in the United States. Yes, women in polygamous homes in Africa are single parents.....no need to deceive themselves they are in a marriage. They practically take care of their kids themselves while happily sharing a man's name. The reason we have too many armed robbers and prostitutes to show for such 'negative' single parenthood experiences.

So it is safe to deduce in my opinion that it is a 'cultural' phenomenon, with the 'Black' race. Nothing to do with "morals"....but lack of self control or adequate planning. The world must have moral codes ok, but if people choose not to obey such 'moral' codes....they are not criminals either. If I don't find them attractive to me personally...I will break them. All about choice. Let God be the judge and jury. Different strokes for different folks.

Key Question.
The question: Why is single parenthood more of a NEGATIVE 'black' experience?
Answer: Because the black fathers abandon their children 'physically' and 'financially'....in marriage-based or in single parenthood homes(most black two parent homes are dysfunctional anyway, with a lot of Rihannas and Chris Browns.....so,who are we deceiving here?) or in single parenthood. More black fathers need to be more responsible and step up to the plate. No marriage necessary...that is medicine after death.

In the United States of America:
Black or African American 65% rate of single parenthood.

The earlier we start to accept this as a 'true' culture, the better for every taxpayer's blood pressure. It is only going to get worse. It is about time the focus shifts to the children who are here and ready to repeat the cycle.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/CDA01-04.cfm

Black American children are more likely to live in poverty than are white children, primarily because black children are far more likely to live in single-parent families and to be on welfare.

Facts!
Blame the absentee "papa barack" 'black daddies' syndrome too! Must they be married to the mothers to take care of their kids? Blame the runaway absentee fathers who abnegate their responsibilities after failing to use condoms with equally irresponsible females. Marriage is definitely going down the tubes as we see it is becoming more 'undesirable' to many youths of today not to be interested in getting married......why? Most youths of today have been scarred by 'sham' marriages in which many heinous unthinkable acts of violence have taken place between their mothers and fathers.....Like Chris Brown can testify.....and have only negative experiences to recount from most of those so-called marriages. Single parenthood is the new trend as seen in the "Black" communities mostly, and it is going to be for a long time...unless the "so-called marriages" show the youths of today a better example to live by.....with all that divorcing going on left, right and center.....that would be hard to do. I would not hold my breath on that one.

Since single parenthood and welfare dependence are the primary factors producing child poverty in the United States, any meaningful strategy to reduce the disparities in black and white child poverty must focus on increasing marriage and reducing welfare dependence among blacks.

Back to square one......divorce rate 50% in the United States of America. So how can this help the problem? You are telling the youths of today to stay married.....but many have not succeeded in staying married with a failing grade of the letter "F" in marriage statistically?

A simple change in cultural evolution.

http://www.mywire.com/a/Fathering/1743101


Fathering: Single parenthood and the double standard.

This paper examines the determinants of attitudes toward unmarried fatherhood in comparison with unmarried motherhood.
Teenage boys choose single motherhood as the best option for unmarried pregnant girls above marrying the father, having an abortion, or adoption (Ku, Sonenstein, Lindberg, & Bradner, 1998). Axinn and Thornton (2000) expect that, as nonmarital births increase, attitudes toward nonmarital childbearing will continue to become more positive.

Attitudes to non-marital childbearing will continue to become more positive despite what the 'religious' bodies desire and are preaching left right and center. Viewpoints such as those exhibited by Ann Coulter and the likes WILL NEVER FLY. People like her would appeal to the crowds of the 1930s....not the young men and women of 2009. Any wise parent in this day and age would prepare for such a possibility instead of whining and whingeing about the inevitable.


The Ultimate "Positive" Single Parent Role Model.
Bottom line....we can preach till the cows come home.......education is falling on deaf ears and the children of today and tomorrow will do what ever they want to do. Many women like the "OctuMomma" will never see poverty........It is only black people that will use single parenthood as an avenue to become poor and wretched. If you want to be a single parent...you better be like the "OctuMomma". She did not deceive any man to knock her up....she got pregnant with 7 IVF cycles from fertilized embryos......DID NOT FORNICATE WITH ANY DUDE EITHER....and we are here debating? Did you see her in the any welfare office in the US? You will never see this woman in any welfare office......she is set for life. I am really beginning to love that woman. Dat one na real super role model for any single momma out there......if you want to be a single parent...why not get it right and proper?

Solution.

The hope for a solution should start with holding absentee fathers equally accountable with their irresponsible baby mommas counterparts.

FATHERS NEED TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND ASSIST THE WOMEN THEY HELPED TO GET PREGNANT BY DOING THEIR PARTS. Men especially, should not have any business getting married after having children out of wedlock. Too many "papa baracks" in the black community.....period! Why should they go about having new families by being married and breeding more children, when they have not taken care of the numerous children fathered with different women all over the place? Why must we keep blaming the women for 'opening their legs'?

What of the men who could not respect themselves by strapping thier 'wandering A-Rods between their legs in tightly-secured, DuPont, caliber-styled, leak-proof pouches? Instead of cross-pollinating and cross-fertilizing females all over the globe to prove their 'virility'? One man alone will knock up 5 or more females without looking back. He he he he he......the ultimate "sperm counter'....Then the same clowns will match to church to go and do "white weddings'....WONDERS!

Please, no one is begging anyone for marriage if unfit to be in one( dat wan na cheap over-rated blackmail for holy holy traditionally minded, poverty-stricken nwejes-righteousios)....just take care of your kids......you don't have to be married to do that and no one is forcing them either. MARRIAGE NOR DEY REIGN THESE DAYS.....

We have blamed the mothers for 'opening' their legs....now time to blame the fathers for 'diving in' for a swim or two without a 'head gear'. It takes 2 to tango...

More facts......Single Parenthood.....The new culture os single parenthood.


http://family.jrank.org/pages/1574/S...ic-Trends.html

Globally, one-quarter to one-third of all families are headed by single mothers, calling into question the normativeness of couple headed families. Developed countries, in particular, are experiencing an increase in single-parent families as divorce becomes more common.

The United States has the highest percentage of single-parent families (34% in 1998) among developed countries, followed by Canada (22%), Australia (20%), and Denmark (19%). In developing countries, divorce is not as common, but desertion, death, and imprisonment produce single-parent families, primarily headed by women (Kinnear 1999). Rates vary country to country from a low of less than 5 percent in Kuwait to a high of over 40 percent in Botswana and Barbados. In countries such as Ghana, Kenya, Rwanda, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Trinidad, and Tobago more than 25 percent of households are headed by women.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!

And people like Ann Coulter are making 'semantically' meaningless articles of utter rubbish.

So my advice to the guys out there....if you are gonna make yourselves useful......you know what to do. Women of this age and the ones to come are certainly not gonna sit around and wait for you to propose when you have absolutely nothing to offer. Smart woman will have their babies with or without your help? If you wanna be recognized as a true man of the house....you berra get your acts together.....thank God for fertility doctors.

Gosh! I love this modern trend.....glad it is catching up in Africa too. See? In countries like Ghana Kenya and Rwanda....single baby mommas all over the place....who cares what the reason is? A single parent is a single parent.

[liloldlady]

Originally Posted by Dewdrops

Moving on to more pertinent aspects of the "single parenthood" drama. Enough of what we already know. My focus.....dealing with single parenthood.

Obviously single parenting is predominantly a "black" thing......In Africa or in the United States. Yes, women in polygamous homes in Africa are single parents.....no need to deceive themselves they are in a marriage. They practically take care of their kids themselves while happily sharing a man's name. The reason we have too many armed robbers and prostitutes to show for such 'negative' single parenthood experiences.

So it is safe to deduce in my opinion that it is a 'cultural' phenomenon, with the 'Black' race. Nothing to do with "morals"....but lack of self control or adequate planning. The world must have a moral codes ok, but if people choose not to obey such 'moral' codes....they are not criminals either. Different strokes for different folks.

GBAM ....you aint lied.....mmmm M.
Every Nigerian who is true to themselves, know that in polygamy, the family structure is indeed single parenting, by another name.
The woman is incharge of the upkeep, and wellbeing of her own brood. She is responsible for, if they are fed, clothed or not. Hence the man will give her, her own farm, so she will produce the food for herself, and her offspring.
The man is usually a Shadowy figure, whose role in the childrens lives, are mostly reduced to myth and the occasional disciplinary action. devoid of any kind of daily interactions.
This belief that traditionally we africans had this utopian concept of family, where Daddy, Mummy and 2.5 kids, sat around for dinner at 7.15pm, with billy the dog, whinning for scraps under the table, is pure conjecture.

In most cases, the man had no time for the kids,(it was not manly to be around and fussing with little children, it was a womans job) or be in the company of the women for that matter, except to extract his conjugal benefits.
Most times even, it was the women who fed the man, out of their own efforts, since they were usually in competition with each other, for who would out do the other, in the, "I'm a better wife than her stakes"

Because people stayed close to their roots, and hardly migrated away from their local environments, the pressure to conform, and to uphold the family name, meant that it took the village to raise these kids.
But with urban migration, and the loss of homogenity, where these type of familiy structures survived the advent of christianity,....the weaknesses inherent in this type of families structure, became easily apparent. With Kids from these types of homes surffering disproportionately from illiteracy, lack of marketable skills and lack of social mobility. And thus the inevitable drifting into crime and prostitution.

But to assert that Single parenting is a western concept, aided and abetted by the welfare state, is completely ignoring our own model of the same phenomenon.

[2plus2]

Gbam, liloldlady and DD.

Now can we talk about the kids.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by lateesha

.

Agreed the kids are here but you and I have control if we choose to because there are others on the way.
The key is education.
knowing what we know about the odds against these kids,single motherhood should be discuoraged with strong terms.





We are all born with choices
and in many countries you have the right to make an informed choice.
The children matter, yes, and a woman that realises that should make the right choice with that in mind.
They deserve the best.



and one of the best treatments is to teach them to wait for marriage before becoming mommies and don't follow mommy's footsteps if she was unwed before popping out latifa,shenene and mallika



This is not about cities,states and countries
It's about a unit called family.

.

Says who?
What sane society would turn it's back to moral decay?
Do these soceities have child welfare officers who take away kids from unfit parents?
If they do then they care what family a child is being reared in.
It's about the child,remember?
Oh I hear many families in those places have no kids or just one.
Well the welfare families at this end usually have an average of 4 kids supported by working families from conception and sometimes for life.



I wonder what you call equal treatment.
To the best of my knowledge,most civilized soceities strive to treat everyone equal within reason but I doubt if they'll move a welfare mother of 6 from a council flat to an exclusve surburb.
Water has it's level.
Equality is a relative term.



In this case we're talking of having kids and sometimes multiple kids out of wedlock and overcrowding the juvenile system and the welfare system which my tax dollars support.
It should be condemned with the strongest language.
I'm not only at risk from harm,I and other hard working Americans pay for them.

Lateesha,
Remember I said everybody's right. So you are right too in your own ways.
I have a very good idea what the problem here is, you don't know exactly know I am talking about, while I know very well what you are talking about.
So, technically speaking it is somehow an unfair discussion we may be having.

There's a lot of good things about America, but there's also a lot of bad - very bad things. The same with Great Britain - to some extent.
Whenever people in the Scandinavia look at news and documentaries etc from America, they shake their heads, make a few incoherent comments and continue with their business. There are about 100,000 Danes living in great Britain, but when they want to start a family they generally run back home. These things are hard to explain.

But thanks all the same, your points are well taken.

[Austin]

Two 13-year-olds to become parents

Monday, 16 February 2009 15:25 KR News

Two 13-year-olds from southern Jutland are to become parents before the mother-to-be has made her confirmation

As the international media expressed indignation over the news that an English boy of 13 became a father at the weekend, two Danish 13-year-olds are also expecting their first born.

TV2 news reports that the young teenagers from the island of Als, in southern Jutland, will become parents after the boy fathered the child when he was just 12.

Both were classmates in the Fryndesholm School in Fynshav, but the boy has recently changed schools as the girl no longer wants to have contact with him.

The principal, Arne Thorup, said that the school is now considering changing its guidelines for sex education, stating that the school was ‘shocked when informed that a 13-year-old girl was pregnant.’

The social and educational services of Sønderborg council are involved in the case; as is the vicar who is due to officiate at the girl’s confirmation in May.

‘Of course it’s a family affair,’ said Thorup, ‘but I can see how it could be a problem that someone is due to be confirmed and also give birth to a baby at the same time. It must be strange for the family.’

The girl’s family do not wish to talk to the media, but the boy’s mother has spoken out to JydskeVestkysten newspaper, saying that her son is being made into a scapegoat in the situation.

‘We informed our children about what is appropriate in a relationship as 13 year olds and things still went wrong. The situation can’t be changed now, what is done is done,’ said the mother. ‘I love my boy more than anything, though of course I don’t believe that children should be having children of their own.’

Last year, 995 babies were born to teenager mothers in Denmark.

Source here http://www.cphpost.dk/news/national/...e-parents.html

[Austin]

This one I find to be very humorous. Enjoy

Mail-order sperm

Wednesday, 04 March 2009 15:44 RC News

A new initiative that will enable women to order semen on-line is proving controversial as it circumvents danish laws against discriminatory gene selection

Parents looking to have a particular type of child are common customers at Europe’s largest sperm bank, Cryos.

Based in Århus, the sperm bank regularly encounters customers who are not satisfied with an everyday baby. Requirements ranging from the donor’s hair colour to his IQ are common at Cryos, according to the company’s managing director, Ole Schou.

‘It is especially singles that come to us for help,’ he told Politiken newspaper. ‘But they won’t accept a doctor just choosing any old semen for fertilisation.’
Cryos supplies frozen donor semen to more than 60 countries all over the world and claims to offer a selection of more than 300 donors of different races and ethnicities.

The company has begun to offer its services over the internet for its Danish customers. Would-be parents can select from the donor’s education level, career, ethnic origin, personality and various physical traits.

And because the transaction takes place over the internet, Danish laws that prohibit discrimination for sperm selection can be sidestepped, according to Politiken newspaper.

John Halse, child psychologist and former head of children’s advocacy organisation Børns Vilkår, believes the practice to be unethical and commented that ‘there’s no guarantee that little Kenneth will grow up to be a lawyer anyway.’
http://www.cphpost.dk/news/scitech/9...der-sperm.html

[Rose]

Originally Posted by liloldlady

GBAM ....you aint lied.....mmmm M.
Every Nigerian who is true to themselves, know that in polygamy, the family structure is indeed single parenting, by another name.
The woman is incharge of the upkeep, and wellbeing of her own brood. She is responsible for, if they are fed, clothed or not. Hence the man will give her, her own farm, so she will produce the food for herself, and her offspring.
The man is usually a Shadowy figure, whose role in the childrens lives, are mostly reduced to myth and the occasional disciplinary action. devoid of any kind of daily interactions.
This belief that traditionally we africans had this utopian concept of family, where Daddy, Mummy and 2.5 kids, sat around for dinner at 7.15pm, with billy the dog, whinning for scraps under the table, is pure conjecture.

In most cases, the man had no time for the kids,(it was not manly to be around and fussing with little children, it was a womans job) or be in the company of the women for that matter, except to extract his conjugal benefits.
Most times even, it was the women who fed the man, out of their own efforts, since they were usually in competition with each other, for who would out do the other, in the, "I'm a better wife than her stakes"

Because people stayed close to their roots, and hardly migrated away from their local environments, the pressure to conform, and to uphold the family name, meant that it took the village to raise these kids.
But with urban migration, and the loss of homogenity, where these type of familiy structures survived the advent of christianity,....the weaknesses inherent in this type of families structure, became easily apparent. With Kids from these types of homes surffering disproportionately from illiteracy, lack of marketable skills and lack of social mobility. And thus the inevitable drifting into crime and prostitution.

But to assert that Single parenting is a western concept, aided and abetted by the welfare state, is completely ignoring our own model of the same phenomenon.

From what I understand it's the same with polygamous sects in the US (mainly in Utah and other western states). The man is legally married to one woman and the rest receive welfare benefits as single women. Now and then then they receive media coverage, but go undetected for the most part.

Goodmorning America.....What's on your mind this morning?

Moving on.

Helping single parents succeed.

Solutions. The Racial Component.

Most single parents are poor......and predominantly from 'Black" neighborhoods. When people are poor, they would most definitely have little or no time to really supervise their children properly. Also when any marriage is unhealthy for the most part(NO MARRIAGE IS PERFECT), good parenting skills are lacking for the most part and children often pick up the worst of habits as learned from their parents.

Statistics.

2005

http://youthviolence.edschool.virgin...tatistics.html

Total percentage of single family homes(all races)=34%
Total percentage of African American children living in poverty=34%(highest compared to all other races)

Whites abuse more drugs than Blacks.
Whites/other minorities also have single parent homes.
But the effects are more profound in the Black families and neighborhoods.


http://youthviolence.edschool.virgin...tatistics.html

Although there may be no direct, causal link between single parent families and youth violence, poor parenting is often identified as one of the most serious risk factors for unhealthy youth development.

My sentiments exactly.

Do Parents and Families Make A Difference?

http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/jr000243f.pdf



The role of the family.

The Role of the Family
I doubt that there is an influence
on the development of antisocial
behavior among young people that
is stronger than that of the family.

Single, marriage-based or any other. The environment kids are raised in matters the most.

Among the most powerful predictors of
mental health problems among children and
adolescents are poor family relationships.

Children whose parents are hostile and
punitive, as well as those whose parents
are neglectful, are at risk for developing
all sorts of mental health problems,
and children with mental health problems
are at risk for developing patterns of
antisocial and violent behavior.

So it really does not matter much what kind of family system you come from.....if parents(single or married) are dysfunctional. Children are often products of their environments. If children grow up in neglectful or violent environments......then it really does not matter if you come from a single family or married family set up.

Neglect and Violence are the indicators for problems children come up with for the most part. Although I have seen some kids that are just 'possessed'....without any 'known' or 'yet to be determined' causes......just wired wrong.

What Single Parents and Their Children Need.

A lot of help from society. Especially with a 50% divorce rate to produce more single parents in the future.


http://www.buzzle.com/articles/singl...ting-help.html

Often the results of being a single parent are due to 3 main factors which are death of a spouse, divorce or a teenage pregnancy.

The true definition of the single parent.....as opposed to the gibberish the Ann Coulter and the likes are trying to espouse.

When a child is born out of wedlock it does not in anyway affect the parental status as proven by the statistics.

Amen to that!

Addressing the real issues.

The families that are headed by a single women are more vulnerable, this is because of a number of reasons. The main one being that

***the women's social position in society is still weaker than that of the men.
***Not only do single mothers have to deal with the gender based limitations of gaining employment ***but also have to cope with a demanding family. This can cause a lot of pressure if she is provided with no support from external sources.

They should not be under such pressure if they really are adequate parents. Society's resources should be used to make sure these women are empowered in the society, with or without a man in their lives. Gender bias needs to be addressed. If a woman can successfully cut out poverty, violence and anti-social interactions from her life, I see no reason why she could not raise her children adequately.....unless the kids just want to be bad, or the society has a negative influence on the children's lives....can't do much about that then. Or these single women/men keep attracting the 'wrong' partners while being single parents.

I would prefer a woman lived alone and raised her kids in peace and quiet with the society's help than have a violent partner in it to complicate matters....all in the almighty name of some dysfunctional marriage. Women need to avoid introducing dysfunctional partners into their homes and should also seek the desired help from the community if they are dysfunctional themselves. Too bad most do not realize they are dysfunctional themselves. PEOPLE WHO GREW UP IN DYSFUNCTIONAL HOMES/ENVIRONMENT SHOULD THINK BEFORE THEY HAVE CHILDREN. Unfortunately, most dysfunctional people think "getting married" or "having kids" would fix all their problems. It only gets worse.

There had been policy proposals that were put in place for single parents to receive social benefits but these have been controversial. According to liberal individualist, if people choose to have children, they are responsible to look after them.

The collectivist position which dominates continental Europe holds that children are other people’s business as well. This position also believes that the interest of the children is far greater than any concerns about the morality of the parents.

KUDOS TO THE EUROPEAN MODEL.

I agree that women or men who choose to be single parents must be able to take care of the child/children they bring into the world. However, it is not always the case and the children should not be made to suffer for all that. I do not support the encouragement of having children one cannot take care of.....But if the children are here......we must help them. THE CHILDREN ARE THE FUTURE OF ANY SOCIETY and cannot be neglected...period. I think I love the collectivist position continental Europe holds.

All About The Children. Avoiding Poverty And Neglect.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/singl...ting-help.html

Single parent surveys seem to suggest that children who live with a single parent will tend to not perform as will in their academic studies and will also receive less mental stimulation than those who live in two parent households. Personally I think the survey is false.

I agree. Barack Obama is a key example.....being raised in a predominantly white environment....with mostly a grandmother not even a mother or a father as a single parent.
I firmly believe that single parenting problems are extremely noticeable more in "Black" families, mostly because of the lack of discipline and the propensity to make the worst of possible choices......like they have learned from their parents.....not so visible in the Caucasian community if you notice. Even Hispanics have better parenting models than we have in the black community....Hispanics put their kids first for the most part....while blacks would put their kids last. When you see a Hispanic kid...he/she is often well dressed, hair well groomed and cleaned up even in "Laundromats"...with all the poverty level....(my opinion/observations please...no research necessary...just state yours and I will not care either)

But check out black neighbors in the same situation.....hair unkempt....tattered clothes....stoned to the wall....just outright neglected Even many places I have worked.....if anyone told you that the Hispanic was an illegal resident without a bank account.....you would swear to God that they were drug dealers. But when the "Blacks" showed up.....most were very unkempt and just out right 'clueless'. Even as drug dealers too. The quality of life "Blacks" live is always substandard compared to those of other races.

With people always looking for ways to cut money they often forget about the child's needs. And I'm not talking about the parent here. Being a single parent more financial support should be provided. Making sure a child grows up with the most care should always come first.

Exactly.....and if the parents...single or married cannot take care of them.....society needs to step up. But then again.....most of the people in the society are dysfunctional themselves(like the forster parent homes) ....so it becomes a catch 22 situation. We just have to keep trying for these kids till we can find better solutions.

Many psychologists and child development workers argue however that these studies are oversimplified and outdated. Many factors are involved in the psychological development of a child raised in a single parent home. Co-operation between divorced parents and quality of attention given to the child are examples.

Oh no! Instead they are too busy fight each other(over who gets the house, cars, money, pots/pans and/or chasing more skirts and pants all over town to fulfill their 'needs', then forget to take care of the children they brought into the world.....like anyone forced them to get married or have children in the first place. They must get married again and again and again....to prove the world that they can 'get married' and be 'respectable' to man and God......and then get divorced again and again and again.

The men disappear from their kids lives....looking for new 'housemaids' not wives.....the women jumping from one single's club(religious or country club)...fasting and praying for another spouse.....when you have not taken care of the children you brought into the world. Must you 'fcuk'? ....The reason I am soooooooo against second marriages....these poor children are so traumatized by all this daddy1, daddy 2 and mommy3 and mommy4 rubbish.....from resources wasted to snag another useless spouse....instead of keeping the kids as the focus. Very annoying. But like they say.....everyone's choice. I CANNOT sacrifice the welfare of my kids for any man in a lieu of a second marriage....they will only know ONE father........till they are grown and out of my house.....the rest...to be heard only....NEVER to be seen. Shag and go.....take your toothbrush with you please...expect my call when you are needed for 'services'. Or call me when you feel like it...perhaps if I am 'chanced'.

No child in a single parent family is by default doomed for a maladjusted life. Single parents must model self-respect and self-nurturing to the children and establish a support system for the family.

Gbam!......We need more workshops for single parents so they can cope and raise their child/ren under circumstances. With available resources, these parents have to be educated on how not to put the needs of their children after theirs. Some of them already know....but just choose to make the wrong decisions always. Thinking of what is between their legs and not what should be upstairs.

Aside from these economic realities, single parents also have to face the reality that children who live with single parents or even with a parent and step-parent, experience disadvantages in terms of psychological functioning, behavioral problems, education, and health.

Exactly! All parents need to recognize when they are failing and address the issues that may affect their kids on the long run.

The best single parent advice on dealing with bringing your kids up alone would be not to be scared of asking for help from family and friends. Whether it be for babysitting or a hand in grocery shopping. I can understand that some single parents may not have this but do not let the pressure of parenthood get to you to much. There are lots of people and information out there that will help in providing advice on what you need. Single parents deserve our respect for being able to raise their child without a partner and should receive help in any form that they need.

Gbam! I agree. As a single parent......your family should be your closest support system for networking. Find sister-in-laws...sisters and aunts who always look out for you. Your mother should be close to you at this time....but of course if one was raised in a 'grossly' dysfunctional environment with violence, pedophiles, drug dealers, pimps, hookers and a lot of social vices....all bridges have been burned. You are stuck with the society....and yourself! May God help that child and those children.

EVERY SINGLE PARENT(MALE OR FEMALE) SHOULD KNOW WHERE AND WHEN TO GET DESIRED HELP.....financial, social, educational or psychological. The future of any child depends on that. MARRIED PARENTS TOO!

Single Parents Dating?

If you are a single parent who would like to get more involved in the dating again then visit single parent personals. Another good resource we recommend for single parent dating is single parent dating services

Of course single parents have needs. If they wish to date, it is highly encouraged....BUT only if they are healthy emotionally and spiritually. They must also be financially secure or have absolutely no business dating. All they are doing with financial problems is most definitely 'whoring' around......looking for someone to pay for their 'habits'. What do you expect? THE KIDS AND THEIR NEEDS GET LEFT BEHIND.

I cannot imagine single parent without a job or education dating. It shows a lack of priority. Socialization should be limited to drive by relationships......while the real focus should be empowering one's self economically and academically. Who needs more emotional baggage with poverty and lack of education staring any single parent(male of female) in the face. Chances are.....some one is going to get someone pregnant again and a much deeper hole of despair than ever continues to be dug for all to sink in. The children? Left behind of course and back to the trenches! What a life!

Every single parent should focus on HOW TO BE A SMART SINGLE PARENT...not how to be a dumb single parent.

The Black Community Needs Help......Especially.

Is single parenthood the problem or divorces?

Divorce Statistics: Effects on Black Community

“Black children are only half as likely as white children to be living in a two-parent household, and are eight times more likely than white children to live with an unwed mother. For black children under six, ‘the most common arrangement — applying to 42 percent of them — was to live with a never-married mother.’”

Where are the runaway dads?

“In 1960, only 60 percent of black women ages twenty-five to twenty-nine were married. In 1990, only 62 percent of white women in this age group were married.

Today the average white woman will spend only 43 percent of her life married, very close to the 40 percent a black woman spent in marriage in 1950.”

Not interested in marriage......


The marriage/divorce craze....doing more harm than good.

And on that note, I think that we would be shocked and awed if their was a study done on the divorce rates of African American Muslim Converts. I met a 40 year old AA sister in 1998 who was on her 16th marriage and the brother was only 18 years old. That marriage did not last long at all and the last time I spoke to her, which was only about two years after I met her, she was on I think her 20th marriage and that was on the rocks. It’s been about six years since I have had contact with her and I pray that Allah has compensated her with something better than she has had and that He makes both she and her spouse happy and content in their marriage.

More on religion and marriage craze.......

It is better to be a single parent than to engage in such self 'abuse'. You can only imagine what the children produced in such 'exercises' or 'experiments' can become in the future, given the priorities of such parents and the wishes to remarry and continue divorcing.